Bill Ball

I sometimes don't follow the book in doing things when I see a decent shortcut, like when I replaced the rear main seal - I did it w/o removing the tranny. Also, I removed the TT in the same manner on several 928s. Worked well for me.

Today I am confronted with replacing the torque converter seal and probably a few other parts behind it (pump seal, pump bushings maybe) due to a monstrous leak. The book approach is to drop the rear suspension and crossmember and then the tranny. Best done on a 2-post lift or on the ground with tall jackstands and a few jacks and/or a tranny jack. I have the car on a 4-post lift. Other than lifting the car to drain the tranny and TC, I can't see how to do this job on a 4-post lift.

Anybody want to make any suggestions other that getting the car off the lift and using jackstands? I've helped people swap the AT on the ground with jackstands. Not too bad a job, at least when you have a few people doing it.

I recall someone doing this tranny service procedure w/o completely removing the rear stuff or tranny, using LONG bolts in place of the crossmember bolts to lower it enough to remove all the front goodies, but not completely dropping it out. Was that for real? [To answer my own question - based on my experience, recorded subsequently in this thread - NO F'N WAY!!]

I may end up doing more than just seals and bushings. The tranny is at 240K miles, so the clutch packs, at least, are overdue. The darn thing still shifts perfectly despite my attempts to wear it out.

EDIT 10/20/11: Well, I can save you some time reading the rest of this thread. DON'T EVER TRY THIS METHOD ON AN S4 OR GTS. MAYBE it would work on earlier models, and I did succeed in getting the TC out, new seals in, etc., but reinstalling the TC with the tranny horizontal risks galling the new front seal or bushings in the primary pump. Anyway, it leaks like crazy after the job.

UPDATE 10/31/11: I have the tranny out of the car entirely now. I did it on the 4-post lift. This has advantages in terms of removing most of the other stuff under the car - you don't have to lay on cold concrete. It would be better to have some TALL jacks too, but I eventually got it down with a 17" motorcycle jack. A taller jack would be a big plus. Getting it back in will be a chore with the short jack.

borland

It all depends on how you plan to support the transaxle and at what height, while you lower the suspension crossmember.

The low cost transmission jacks are floor jacks. So, unless you have a tall transmission jack for use with a two/four post lift at standing height, your probably going to use a floor jack and have your lift at the lower settings.

Personally, I think the best way to support the transmission while removing the crossmember, is to use a wooden beam under the differential. Much better than using a chain recommended in the WSM.





Just how do you plan to move the transaxle around to work on it after you have it removed from the car?

Bill Ball

Thanks, Brian. I can borrow a tranny jack - looks like the same one you used. Your alternative for suspending/supporting the tranny is good too. The AT is one big, bulky SOB.

How did you make the transition from the AT supported with the beam on the diff to the tranny jack and vice versa? Was it simply that the beam was right at the rear edge of the diff?

Did you take the TT out with the tranny? I don't see it.

Mrmerlin

Hi Bill you CAN NOT, NOT, NOT use the 4 poster ...... instructions for TT and trans removal

NOTE Borland posted pictures of how these instructions are written for the removal of the trans and TT
BUT The difference is he has also remove the shocks from the lower link pins and this is not how these instructions are written,
you would only remove the top 3 anchor bolts for each shock then drop them down with the Xmember this keeps the hubs from jumping around

Disconnect the battery,

Remove the aircleaner

Remove the bowden cable from the throttle quadrant.

Remove the vacuum line from 6 way splitter

Remove the O2 sensor from CE panel connection,
then remove the exhaust and heat shields.
Drain the transmission.
Remove the lower bell housing,
Remove the 4 bolts inside the front bell housing to TT
Mark and remove the 6 flex plate to flywheel bolts
Remove the 2 pinch bolts for the TT (2 of them, front and rear)

Remove the bolt that holds bowden cable housing to the bell housing
NOTE you may have to remove this one from inside the bell housing

Disconnect the trans cooler lines over the cats.
Disconnect the front chassis crossmember under the front of the TT


To Drop the rear X member,

Remove the 2 eccentric bolts at the fronts of each lower control arm ,
clean them first then mark them to install in the same position
Remove 6 nuts from the tops of the shocks
Remove the calipers from the hubs, hang in safe position
Remove the E brake cable from the handle,
the housing pulls out of the chassis and stays with the xmember.
Disconnect the CV bolts from the output shaft on trans.
Disconnect the ABS and brake sensor wires
Disconnect the wire harness for the trans speedo and shifter lights in spare tire well.
Disconnect the shifter cable from trans.

Tie up the transaxle to the swaybar,
drop the Xmember on a jack and wheel out of the way
Note the CV axles will stay with the Xmember tie them to the blades it will keep the member balanced
(watch for the spacer shims).

Transaxle drop ...
put jack under front portion of the transaxle this should keep it balanced, lower the trans an inch or so then slide it back lowering and sliding rearwards as you go,
NOTE the front flex plate will need to be reattached to flywheel or dropped out for cleaning.
Lower the assembly out of the way, pay attention to the bowden cable housing so it doesent get damaged
at the front connection point.
Remove the rear TT to trans bolts then slide the TT away from the trans.

Rebuild the trans cooler lines from the Cats to the trans
Replace the front TC bearings.
Replace the TT bearings, consider pinning the damper inside the TT so it wont slide back and forth
Replace the vacuum modulator and any other outside seals with the updated parts,
Replace the front radial seal and front pump O ring,
leave the front pump gasket in place as it will be stuck to the pump,
simply wipe it off, if you try to remove it you will damage the sealing surfaces.

Bill Ball

Stan:

On a 4-post lift, how do you drop the rear crossmember with the ramps and the lift crossbeam joining them in the way? Also, I assume you'd suggest to jack the rear of the car up and support it with jackstands as if it were on the ground instead of ramps, but you don't mention it. You have to. Wheeling the crossmember and suspension out of the way on a 4-poster isn't obvious to me. It's hard enough on the ground unless the tail is WAY high in the air. This is the one time I wish I had a 2-post lift. I'd like to do this on the 4-poster rather than lying on cold concrete, but as far as I can see, I'm going to be better off rolling it off the lift. I can remove the exhaust and unfasten the front of the TT and flexplate on the lift, but after that, I think it needs to come down to the ground.

One possibility I see is the "partial drop" where the crossmember and tranny are supported or suspensed but not fully removed and the tranny work is done tranny still in the car but low enough to get the TC off and access the stuff behind it.

Leon Speed

Hi Bill, how about something like this?



http://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/...o-jack3500.htm

No idea about this brand, just found this page for illustration purposes.

Mrmerlin

Ohh Sorry Bill I misunderstood your lift question i dont think that you can do this with your lift. The other pictures with the jack and the jack stands make it possible though

Bill Ball

Oh, I have one of those. It's handy for lifting the car. I can get the wheels off the ramps and the car on on jackstands while on the lift. That's great for most work, but for rear crossmember/suspension/tranny removal, the 4-post lift ramps and crossbeams are an obstruction.

SeanR

Do it on the floor, jackstands and all that.

Also, go to Harbor Freight or Northern Tool and get one of these.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...6249_200326249



Been using this for years on transmission/TT replacements. Easy to use and with the car on lift bars, 6 ton jack stands, it raises up to the perfect height.

Bill Ball

I am considering using my sliding jack to get the tail in the air on the lift, get some jackstands under the rear lift points, then do a "partial drop" of the rear crossmember and suspension with the sliding jack to get the tranny down low enough to get the TC out and do the reseal on the front. I'm not swapping out the tranny, so this should work (famous last words). Here goes nothing.

borland

Bill,



The HFT tranny jack is only good for 'one use'. It is a good jack to use however since it accomodates tilting the tranny as it is removed and reinstalled. Otherwise, you will be fighting the reinstall. I say one-use, because using that model jack on a 928 auto is over the jacks rated capacity. So, I'd recommend you buy a new one over borrowing one or select another of their tranny jacks. They sell floor jack adapters, but you need a floor jack with wide wheels to ensure lift stability.

The transition piece is made from plywood with 2"x2" screwed to the plywood. The design is based on the photo of the Porsche tool shown in the WSM, Volume 3.

The wood beam is used inplace of WSM chain method, so you would follow the same WSM procedure for removing the tranny, but use the wood beam instead. The beam and its supports need to be wide enough such as to allow slipping the tranny jack in place when your ready to lower and remove the tranny.

I removed the torque tube separately (after removing the tranny) because I was working by myself. Some think you need to remove them together because they don't drop the tranny low enough to access the upper two bolts. It is easier to do them separately.

blown 87

I thought you blamed your leak on your shortcuts?????

Bill Ball

My original goal was just to replace the TC bearings and that was accomplished, tranny in the car, no problem. The seal was fine. Same with removing/replacing the TT. Someone suggested you can get the TC out and replace the seals behind it w/o dropping the tranny too, so I tried. Even though the seal was fine, it was one of those WYAIT things. Not in my car. The TC was not coming out. That resulted in mooching the seal when the TC was partially out. It dripped just a bit for about a year but finally gave out yesterday Oh, well.

Andre Hedrick

You can borrow mine.

Bill Ball

Thanks, Andre. I'll let you know if I need it. I should be getting to this tomorrow.