928 Lazarus, Maybe
08-28-2011, 07:05 AM
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928 Lazarus, Maybe
I’m a newb to the board, but a pretty old Porsche person. With a ’79 928 sitting in my garage in Austin. Actually, its buried in my garage in Austin. Didn’t know whether to refer to it as Methusela or Lazarus. After some thought, Methusela slept; Lazarus died. So I guess its Lazarus, ‘cause it pretty dead. So now to see if Lazarus can rise from the grave………
Waaaaaay back when many of you were young’uns, I was in Austin in grad school and came across a 72 914 that needed seals and a clutch. Being a Mechanical Engineer and having built a few cars and bikes, I figured it can’t be that hard, can it? So it was off to a friend’s house, up on jacks, and drop the engine and trans. Disciplined myself to work on it only every other day. The days between were for grad studies. Got it finished, converted over to a carb and it ran great. It was Austin in ‘83, and I had the time of my life. Stayed in Austin after grad school and had tons of fun with it. Met my wife through that car.
So feeling confident about rebuilding Porsches, I found a gold 79 928 with 40K miles. It had been repossessed from an Air Force pilot in San Antonio, and then stolen from the repo yard and gotten a bit abused. Had a blown head gasket in the passenger side head. Oil looked like a chocolate milkshake. So who hard can a head R&R be? Well, got it to a friend’s car port (I was living in an apartment at the time), got the head off, milled, and reinstalled. Yes, I did lose one of the cam assembly bolts inside when it fell from the tool. So I had to take the cam assembly off and installed over again. Dang if I didn’t get it right, no more chocolate milk in the crankcase. Man I was feeling proud. Compression was all within spec.
So I was feeling pretty cocky again. When I mentioned this to a few professional Porsche mechanics, they couldn’t believe I did it myself with just a Haynes manual. BTW, still had the 914 at the time. So I thought, “Hey, the PCA sounds like fun. I oughta join!”
That’s when reality one set in. I went to a few Hill Country PCA things and found out when I mentioned I had a 928, I might as well said I had AIDS. With Dengue Fever and Ebola thrown in. A few folks thought that people like me who bought a water-cooled Porsche were going to bring the whole company down. And make Porsche end production of their beloved 911 and make them switch to a 944 or 928 at gun point. “You can have my air-cooled Porsche when you pry my cold dead hands off it!” Geez, all I did was buy a used car for heaven’s sake. To say I didn’t feel welcome was a bit of an understatement. The Internet wasn’t much beyond a twinkle in DARPA’s eyes in those days, so networking with other 928 owners wasn’t easy.
Kinda went home with the 928 and didn’t know what the heck to feel. Reality two sets in, the generator goes out. “You want HOW much for a rebuilt generator????!!!!!!!” was my response at parts houses! Holy crapola, 928 parts were like gold plated platinum to these guys. Finally took the 928 generator off myself, took it to a place that repaired generators in Austin and told them I wanted to show them a generator and could they repair it. They of course said what’s it from and I wouldn’t tell them, just said give me a quote. Well one place wanted like a $100 for a guaranteed repair which although expensive, seemed ok. After I got the quote, I told they guy it was for a 928. He told me if he’da known that, he would have charged at least double. It worked ok.
Reality number two is that parts are expensive.
Well, time goes on and I even went to a PCA thing in OKC, great big event back when Porsche was in Indy car racing. Pretty much same response as the Hill Country PCA, benign neglect to anyone owning a 928. Most folks thought a 928 wasn’t really a Porsche and the factory would come to their senses and get back to making air cooled motors again. The 944, well, it was for the now upcoming yuppies and provided a good source of income for Weissach so they could have funds for more 911 development.
Last PCA thing I ever did, even though I stayed a member. Maybe Panorama would run a 928 article or two, maybe. Yeah, right, kinda when pigs fly…….
Reality number three sets in. Things break, electrical gremlins. Drove the thing to the credit union on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Went to leave, no start, no nuthin’. No lights, no horn, nada, goose egg. Thought maybe the battery was toast and got a jump from a good soul. Still nothing, no power anywhere. After about an hour of being totally confused then moving to desperation, I had to call a wrecker to bring the thing home. My girl friend at the time (later wife) saw it coming on a wrecker and wasn’t real happy. After some electrical sleuthing, I found the key switch assembly was toast. Got it repaired and it was running again. Discovered the infamous painted grounds problems on the 928s. Couldn’t figure out how Porsche could make such a high dollar car and then ground wires to heavily painted areas.
Of course, the WW covers are cracking and toast. And of course, replacements are like hen’s teeth. Porsche wanted $850 a side for new ones back then. Cheap by todays’s prices. Shoulda bought them. There wasn’t a reupholsterer in Austin who wanted to touch them. Several said they would try, but there’d be several seams in the covers. Dang
Still had more electrical gremlins and started being more and more concerned when the thing was going to leave me by the road again. Of course the rack is leaking and rebuilds were like $800. We moved into a new house in 1988, and I think the next year I put it in the garage. Where it’s been ever since. The inspections sticker says 1989 on it. A few times I’ve even been tempted to just take the thing to the crusher for the sheer satisfaction. Then I remember I’ve put over $15K into this car including the price, and I’ve got to get something out of it. Yeah, maybe.
And its sat. In the meantime, I’ve built several different cars and motorycles, and sold a few for a profit. I’m working in the Middle East now on construction jobs and had time and not a lot to do at a remote site, except surf the web. And I’ve found Renegade Hybrids in Vegas (how many times I’ve been in Vegas the last few years and didn’t know). I found this site which is fantastic.
Seem the 928 haters in the Porsche community have gone away or died off. Kinda like some Vets think about Vietnam, it was all in the past anymore. Folks seem to think the Cayenne and Panamera are ok now. Guess the water-cooled haters have left, isn’t the 911 water cooled now?
I’m older and wiser now. So I’m thinking about my next rotation back to the states, and maybe doing something to/with a car that’s sat for over 21 years. I’ve got a super-low miles LT-1 ex-cop car motor in my shed that I got for $300, next to it are aluminum heads to replace the cast iron ones and a GM HOT cam. Even the rare carbureated manifold too. A 400 hp Renegade Hybrid conversion could be fun. Even in environmental Austin, I don’t think the inspection ***** will give me much trouble on a 79 vehicle. Heck, if these kids don’t see an OBD-II port, they don’t really know what to do! Then again, for some reason, getting the original Porsche OHC motor running is fascinating. Guess I’ve gotten over the paranoia of working on the 928, and the paranoia of it breaking down somewhere. Not like that hasn’t happened a few times with my project cars in the last 20 years! I do have Waldo's Towing on speed dial…….
Part of what may be my change of heart with the 928 is all the beautiful pictures posted here. For better or worse, the 928 still is beautiful, even if Porschefiles don’t agree.
Reality number 4, the 928 was styled way ahead of its time. And it’s still beautiful. Well, maybe mine with a paint job can be. And something done with the interior.
So here I am, hope to get to work on the car again. Great board, seems like great folks here. And some damn beautiful cars. And many don’t seem to really care if I put that LT-1 or even an LS motor in there.
Waaaaaay back when many of you were young’uns, I was in Austin in grad school and came across a 72 914 that needed seals and a clutch. Being a Mechanical Engineer and having built a few cars and bikes, I figured it can’t be that hard, can it? So it was off to a friend’s house, up on jacks, and drop the engine and trans. Disciplined myself to work on it only every other day. The days between were for grad studies. Got it finished, converted over to a carb and it ran great. It was Austin in ‘83, and I had the time of my life. Stayed in Austin after grad school and had tons of fun with it. Met my wife through that car.
So feeling confident about rebuilding Porsches, I found a gold 79 928 with 40K miles. It had been repossessed from an Air Force pilot in San Antonio, and then stolen from the repo yard and gotten a bit abused. Had a blown head gasket in the passenger side head. Oil looked like a chocolate milkshake. So who hard can a head R&R be? Well, got it to a friend’s car port (I was living in an apartment at the time), got the head off, milled, and reinstalled. Yes, I did lose one of the cam assembly bolts inside when it fell from the tool. So I had to take the cam assembly off and installed over again. Dang if I didn’t get it right, no more chocolate milk in the crankcase. Man I was feeling proud. Compression was all within spec.
So I was feeling pretty cocky again. When I mentioned this to a few professional Porsche mechanics, they couldn’t believe I did it myself with just a Haynes manual. BTW, still had the 914 at the time. So I thought, “Hey, the PCA sounds like fun. I oughta join!”
That’s when reality one set in. I went to a few Hill Country PCA things and found out when I mentioned I had a 928, I might as well said I had AIDS. With Dengue Fever and Ebola thrown in. A few folks thought that people like me who bought a water-cooled Porsche were going to bring the whole company down. And make Porsche end production of their beloved 911 and make them switch to a 944 or 928 at gun point. “You can have my air-cooled Porsche when you pry my cold dead hands off it!” Geez, all I did was buy a used car for heaven’s sake. To say I didn’t feel welcome was a bit of an understatement. The Internet wasn’t much beyond a twinkle in DARPA’s eyes in those days, so networking with other 928 owners wasn’t easy.
Kinda went home with the 928 and didn’t know what the heck to feel. Reality two sets in, the generator goes out. “You want HOW much for a rebuilt generator????!!!!!!!” was my response at parts houses! Holy crapola, 928 parts were like gold plated platinum to these guys. Finally took the 928 generator off myself, took it to a place that repaired generators in Austin and told them I wanted to show them a generator and could they repair it. They of course said what’s it from and I wouldn’t tell them, just said give me a quote. Well one place wanted like a $100 for a guaranteed repair which although expensive, seemed ok. After I got the quote, I told they guy it was for a 928. He told me if he’da known that, he would have charged at least double. It worked ok.
Reality number two is that parts are expensive.
Well, time goes on and I even went to a PCA thing in OKC, great big event back when Porsche was in Indy car racing. Pretty much same response as the Hill Country PCA, benign neglect to anyone owning a 928. Most folks thought a 928 wasn’t really a Porsche and the factory would come to their senses and get back to making air cooled motors again. The 944, well, it was for the now upcoming yuppies and provided a good source of income for Weissach so they could have funds for more 911 development.
Last PCA thing I ever did, even though I stayed a member. Maybe Panorama would run a 928 article or two, maybe. Yeah, right, kinda when pigs fly…….
Reality number three sets in. Things break, electrical gremlins. Drove the thing to the credit union on a beautiful Saturday afternoon. Went to leave, no start, no nuthin’. No lights, no horn, nada, goose egg. Thought maybe the battery was toast and got a jump from a good soul. Still nothing, no power anywhere. After about an hour of being totally confused then moving to desperation, I had to call a wrecker to bring the thing home. My girl friend at the time (later wife) saw it coming on a wrecker and wasn’t real happy. After some electrical sleuthing, I found the key switch assembly was toast. Got it repaired and it was running again. Discovered the infamous painted grounds problems on the 928s. Couldn’t figure out how Porsche could make such a high dollar car and then ground wires to heavily painted areas.
Of course, the WW covers are cracking and toast. And of course, replacements are like hen’s teeth. Porsche wanted $850 a side for new ones back then. Cheap by todays’s prices. Shoulda bought them. There wasn’t a reupholsterer in Austin who wanted to touch them. Several said they would try, but there’d be several seams in the covers. Dang
Still had more electrical gremlins and started being more and more concerned when the thing was going to leave me by the road again. Of course the rack is leaking and rebuilds were like $800. We moved into a new house in 1988, and I think the next year I put it in the garage. Where it’s been ever since. The inspections sticker says 1989 on it. A few times I’ve even been tempted to just take the thing to the crusher for the sheer satisfaction. Then I remember I’ve put over $15K into this car including the price, and I’ve got to get something out of it. Yeah, maybe.
And its sat. In the meantime, I’ve built several different cars and motorycles, and sold a few for a profit. I’m working in the Middle East now on construction jobs and had time and not a lot to do at a remote site, except surf the web. And I’ve found Renegade Hybrids in Vegas (how many times I’ve been in Vegas the last few years and didn’t know). I found this site which is fantastic.
Seem the 928 haters in the Porsche community have gone away or died off. Kinda like some Vets think about Vietnam, it was all in the past anymore. Folks seem to think the Cayenne and Panamera are ok now. Guess the water-cooled haters have left, isn’t the 911 water cooled now?
I’m older and wiser now. So I’m thinking about my next rotation back to the states, and maybe doing something to/with a car that’s sat for over 21 years. I’ve got a super-low miles LT-1 ex-cop car motor in my shed that I got for $300, next to it are aluminum heads to replace the cast iron ones and a GM HOT cam. Even the rare carbureated manifold too. A 400 hp Renegade Hybrid conversion could be fun. Even in environmental Austin, I don’t think the inspection ***** will give me much trouble on a 79 vehicle. Heck, if these kids don’t see an OBD-II port, they don’t really know what to do! Then again, for some reason, getting the original Porsche OHC motor running is fascinating. Guess I’ve gotten over the paranoia of working on the 928, and the paranoia of it breaking down somewhere. Not like that hasn’t happened a few times with my project cars in the last 20 years! I do have Waldo's Towing on speed dial…….
Part of what may be my change of heart with the 928 is all the beautiful pictures posted here. For better or worse, the 928 still is beautiful, even if Porschefiles don’t agree.
Reality number 4, the 928 was styled way ahead of its time. And it’s still beautiful. Well, maybe mine with a paint job can be. And something done with the interior.
So here I am, hope to get to work on the car again. Great board, seems like great folks here. And some damn beautiful cars. And many don’t seem to really care if I put that LT-1 or even an LS motor in there.
08-28-2011, 07:22 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Great story, I totally enjoyed this read. You always wonder about the history of a car that has sat for so long, so this was like a real inside look. And I would put heavy odds on your Lazarus having a restored Porsche V8 in it, at the end of the day. You do not seem like the type who could turn down a challenge like that. But whatever you do, keep us updated!
08-28-2011, 07:38 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Welcome to (IMHO) the best 928 resource on the web. I hope you get Lazarus back on the road with the original power plant. The music of the Porsche VB is magical. The key will be to drive the car hard and often once it is road worthy again. Mine seems to sulk and get temperamental if I don't take her out and thrash her around regularly.
Oh, and
This
Oh, and
This
08-28-2011, 09:06 AM
#6
Drifting
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Even if the original 4.5 was bad, very easy to find another to put in there. Do not swap for the LT1... Don't be one of those guys. The character of the engine is part of the character of the car, and will be lost forever with a swap like that. Boo!
Look up "Excellence Was Expected" the 928 sections, great reading and you will have more respect for the original engine.
Look up "Excellence Was Expected" the 928 sections, great reading and you will have more respect for the original engine.
08-28-2011, 11:05 AM
#7
sportster_restorer
I think you have won the award for the best first post. Welcome. And since you are in the neighborhood, there are quite a few people who can assist you when the time comes to wake up the beast.
I think you have won the award for the best first post. Welcome. And since you are in the neighborhood, there are quite a few people who can assist you when the time comes to wake up the beast.
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08-28-2011, 11:18 AM
#8
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Forgot to mention that it has a gold exterior with a brown leather interior. Its a 5-speed, gonna have to check for the /12 code and hope its a LSD. Outside of the WW covers being bad, the interior's still in good condition.
When it did run, I remember cruising around Loop 360 doing 80 mph and feeling like the car was just getting comfortable. i recall it was tach'ing at around 3000 rpm. My friend asked what the redline was and I said I think its 6000 rpm.
He said "That works out to around 160 mph top end".
I said, "Yeah, that's the math", and grinned.
I do a lot of project management stuff with Primavera and MS Project. I think I may just try and plan the revival on MS Project. I did that once before on a car and it was amazing how easy it made the work. Also makes you less likely to overlook something. Downside is it also lets you know right upfront the headaches you have in front of you!
When it did run, I remember cruising around Loop 360 doing 80 mph and feeling like the car was just getting comfortable. i recall it was tach'ing at around 3000 rpm. My friend asked what the redline was and I said I think its 6000 rpm.
He said "That works out to around 160 mph top end".
I said, "Yeah, that's the math", and grinned.
I do a lot of project management stuff with Primavera and MS Project. I think I may just try and plan the revival on MS Project. I did that once before on a car and it was amazing how easy it made the work. Also makes you less likely to overlook something. Downside is it also lets you know right upfront the headaches you have in front of you!
08-28-2011, 12:00 PM
#9
Race Car
I'm not chanting for pics when the poster is in middle east and the car is in Tex...
I'd be concerned about using MS Project...I'm leary of documenting 1) amount invested, and/or timeframe slippage. I keep my receipts, I just never tally them...
Had an LS in my '04 GTO couple years ago- good powerplant...good car, too.....Almost popped on a '05 GTO before getting "Scylla" for about half as much.
I'd be concerned about using MS Project...I'm leary of documenting 1) amount invested, and/or timeframe slippage. I keep my receipts, I just never tally them...
Had an LS in my '04 GTO couple years ago- good powerplant...good car, too.....Almost popped on a '05 GTO before getting "Scylla" for about half as much.
08-28-2011, 06:34 PM
#11
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The 928 remains the Rodney Dangerfield of Porsche cars. At the track many people approach and mention that they THOUGHT about buying one (never did) or remember the one that friend's dad,Uncle, boss used to have. Very very few ever had one, most have never driven one or even had a ride in one. I fix that for my students pretty quickly 
. I have loaned my car to a few people to drive at the track when their more modified car was not running ,you can run a lower car in a higher class if you want, so they could get points toward a championship.
Fun car in many ways but mostly a cult car....
. I have loaned my car to a few people to drive at the track when their more modified car was not running ,you can run a lower car in a higher class if you want, so they could get points toward a championship.Fun car in many ways but mostly a cult car....
08-28-2011, 07:56 PM
#12
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Great post, Sportster! I enjoyed the read and wish you best of luck - whichever path you take. Look forward to hearing about the project when you get started.
08-28-2011, 10:59 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Great 1st post and a great story. The car is in one of the best places, Texas. We have a large very active group of 928 owners here. As soon as you get back to Austin you need to let us know. There is a good group in both Austin and the DFW area. You also have one of the best upholstry guys in the country just south of you and the primier parts guy just north of you. Welcome to the shark tank. 
08-28-2011, 11:05 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Give me a shout when you are back in town... You can come over to my place for some inspiration.
BTW, doing the Renegade switch won't be a problem for inspection in TX, but the job is HUGE and EXPENSIVE! It honestly can't be done right for less than about $6k and that is with YOU doing all the work!
One of our original 928 Owners Club folks here in the Austin area did one 12+ years ago. It was not cheap, but it was pretty interesting. He is now in AZ, but he did all the work on that car himself. Never got it quite right either I might add! Nothing is plug and play and EVERYTHING will require some level of customization.
Just find a good used 4.5L 928 motor and put that in!
The Hill Country Region of PCA is a spectacular club these days! I was Pres 9 years ago and we won the membership growth award nationally! Most of the last 15 years of presidents have owned P-cars OTHER THAN 911's!
That said, support the 928 and join the 928 Owners Club! www.928oc.org
Welcome to the group and I look forward to seeing your car back on the roads of Austin!
BTW, doing the Renegade switch won't be a problem for inspection in TX, but the job is HUGE and EXPENSIVE! It honestly can't be done right for less than about $6k and that is with YOU doing all the work!
One of our original 928 Owners Club folks here in the Austin area did one 12+ years ago. It was not cheap, but it was pretty interesting. He is now in AZ, but he did all the work on that car himself. Never got it quite right either I might add! Nothing is plug and play and EVERYTHING will require some level of customization.
Just find a good used 4.5L 928 motor and put that in!
The Hill Country Region of PCA is a spectacular club these days! I was Pres 9 years ago and we won the membership growth award nationally! Most of the last 15 years of presidents have owned P-cars OTHER THAN 911's!
That said, support the 928 and join the 928 Owners Club! www.928oc.org
Welcome to the group and I look forward to seeing your car back on the roads of Austin!
08-28-2011, 11:32 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Great to have you with us. Nice introduction. There are a lot more of us Senior Porschephiles here than you might think. When I was in graduate school I was in love with a 63 Corvette split window coupe which had just come out. I bought my first Porsche in 68 which was a 64 356C coupe, I still have it. Welcome aboard.
Jerry Feather
Jerry Feather