Podguy

Recently we have been debating a fair price for a decent 91 S4. For some time I have argued that model year and millage will become less important in pricing a 928 than condition. Here is an example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...#ht_500wt_1182

This is a very nice job and already the bidding is north of the prices S4 cars are bringing. Of course the owner is not recovering the investment, but I would rather pay up for a 928 that has under gone a restoration than a newer model that is "nice condition".

robot808

Not debating your main point, but this car doesn't really help your argument. It is low mile car from a desirable MY.

SteveG

ebay: Means nothing til the money changes hands.

tmpusfugit

and the seller will not get back 30 cents on the dollar of what has been spent on the "restoration"....it happens all the time in the world of hot rods, classic cars of many years and makes, recreations, and one offs. Seldom does an owner get back a sunstantial portion of their money spent, and even more seldom does an owner make anything on a car. Yes, it does happen, but less often today than a few years ago. I recently watched a great Boyd Coddington car, that he claimed to have a $1.5 million in, go for less than $750k. Also, I saw a recent 32 Ford Saturday that the owner had receipts of over $100k in the "recreation", with an asking price of $35k OBO.. Some of the so called brass cars are even worse...today's buyers have less interest in the really old stuff than in the past. The greatest generation is passing away fast and they were the real market for a lot of early cars.....

I still think the market for 928's has to go up ultimately, but the cost of making a so so car really great will prohibit such efforts for a very long time. Seldom will it "pay off" with a profit for any of us. The rare low milage pristine examples will need to remain hanger queens to bring really good money in the future..... the rest of us should do the best we can and enjoy the cars...don't ever add of the receipts...it will depress you and give your SO something to beat you about the head and shoulders for a long time to come....

DanielD

Sell a 928; you don't sell a 928. You buy 928's. Then pump in huge sums of money and throw away the receipts to protect the guilty. Then drive it until you have to pump in more money and drive. Then repeat with great vigor... Repeat...

Ducman82

Spot on..

James Bailey

The ONLY thing you can not "restore" on these cars in the days of Carfax is the odometer reading......but resprays NEVER EVER are as durable long lasting as original factory paint from the days prior to water base !
Low miles will always be a premium IF BIG IF the car LOOKS to be in good condition. And it need not be in good condition, simply look like it is.
Besides these car are changing hands at such low prices it hardly warrants much discussion. I have probably spent $1,000 this year on Sushi for lunch..........was that a good investment I sure enjoyed it !

ender928

There is no investment to recover. Every car is unique and should be judged that way. there is no market price. IMHO.

Landseer

That interior is truly exceptional.

But I think the 50K investment figure is bumped up to retail value and is not what such a savvy investor in cars paid for the sum of the work and the base value of the original vehicle. Far too smart for that, I think, reading past posts.

Bill Ball

The seats look overstuffed.

Erik N

Dan, are you in the market for ANOTHER car?!?

PS just had to do the Mercedes water pump again. Remember "The Bolt"?

Podguy

Eric,

You mean the bolt that is impossible to remove. I did a pump that did not need replacing. Turned out to be the belt tensioner. Probably time to replace that. And No I am not in the mood for another car.

I have the engine of the 78 out, cleaned and sprayed in clear engine paint. The intake manifolds are almost all polished. I have four more tubes to finish on the wheel. The fire wall is coated with Lizard Skin and ready to paint. Hope to get it cleaned and primed this weekend. Next step is sending the hardware out for plating. Nickel for the engine hardware.

My point on the 86 for sale is not that the upholstery is over stuffed. The point is there are four of us at the moment who are involved in a major restoration. This is a new trend. The price rise on 1960s cars was a generational thing. A friend sold a GTO with no motor for $60K and GM was turning 100,000 a year or so. Now the generation is shifting. There were very few if any 1980s cars worth restoring. The K cars and other box cars were not so emotional. The price bid on the 86 on e-bay shows there is more interest in paying up for a restored car than a low mileage preserved car.

In restoring many things can be addressed that are known problem areas. Enhancements can be made so the finished product is better than new. A car that is low mileage and stored for years - even under perfect conditions will not be as good as a proper restoration. A low mileage car may not need upholstery or maybe paint, but it will still need to be torn down and gone throiugh.

And a comment on paint. The original paint on the 928 was not all that great. The clear coat - like most german cars of the time peels. Today's paint systems are much superior to the original paint. The same is true of Rob's interior work on the 86. The end product is much better than what came with the car. Even the leather is better quality. I would rather have a rebuilt dash and pod from Just Dashes than one that has been preserved by luck and the grace of God.

SMTCapeCod

I still think the high prices are pretty random, that a car happens to be notice by someone for whom allocating a couple tens of thousand to scratch an itch is more or less d'rigeur, such that recovering the investment doesn't weigh heavily in the decision. I think most of those cars end up parked and of benefit for future generations- and my sense is that more of those are hitting the market in these tough times than were say five years ago. Its a confluence of factors. It is interesting to see so many 20K, 30K mile cars listed, and the range of prices for those that appear to be legitimate. There's a few S3 North of $20K at specialty dealers on cars.com and locatable via websearch. I'm guessing the sale is more a matter of time, than money waiting for the above described affluent one(s).

S4ordie

Only four? Who are these people? I suspect there are far more than four.

Some that I know of:
Fabio
Dean
Podguy
JadZ
S4ordie

That's five and I'm sure there are a lot more.

SMTCapeCod

INteresting development at a time when the list of NLA parts is growing and those that are available seem to go up by 50% every other year! OK that may be an exaggeration.

Another interesting dynamic- more owners showing up at gatherings that are just getting acquatined with 928s, owning their first, resplendent with stories of the consultant they hired to hunt down just the right car or the boutique dealership that wouldn't budge from 3x book value. Ahhh, the risky business generation coming of age.

Its a dynamic in part because there are some folks that are inelastic with respect to price, but there is also a reasonably large body of enthusiasts that are prone to driving things the other way by angling for low cost cars and piling on when someone posts to the board at a perceived premium price. Human nature and a consequence of the vigorous participation, I guess- a good thing on balance.