Greg S's 5-spd GTS on EBAY
07-07-2011, 04:17 PM
#46
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Just an FYI, I have never sold cars for a living (and no one in my family is in the car business, they are much smarter than me :-)...Heck, I walked away from a 93 Black on Black 5-speed with 18k miles on it years ago that was only $30K....just because the NEW replacement motor(one of "those" early GTS rod issues) from Porshe had "auto" markings.
When I say walk away, I flew from Atlanta to Boston on a one way ticket with $10K cash in each shoe and a $10K Cashiers Check planning to drive it back. The condition was exactly as described and should have been for an 18K mile GTS...and I knew if had a replacement engine...but when I saw the Auto Markings on the block I went back to the airport bought a ticket with some of the cash i had and flew back to ATL.
So, maybe that shows you I really don't have a clue either...and certainly not a "car dealer" :-)
Funny thing is, if you were to sit that same 18K mile GTS beside Greg's GTS with 129K miles today ...I would still pay more for his. But I can say that with all certainty because I have seen and driven both first hand and IMHPO Greg's is the better value.
I love all this talk about "mileage", reminds of the paragraph in the large 89S4 Factory Lit about the owner who contacted the Porsche museum about his 300,000 mile S4. He thought they would want it in the museum to show off how it still looked/ran new after 300,000 miles. The story was they literally laughed at him and the comment was something like "this is what we expect out of any 928...let us know when you have 2 or 3 times that much and we will revist the subject".
I have always said that I would rather have a higher mileage 928 than a low mileage one..IF I plan to really enjoy the 928 the way it was intended...you know, drive it instead of just looking at and/or just showing it off occasionally.
When it comes to GTS 5-Speeds for sale there are basically 3 catagories..
Cat 1- Super Low Mileage perfect versions for $80-$100K+ that have just been polished and stared at
Those are fantastic..for looking at. If you actually drive and enjoy it for a few years, guess what, you now have a higher mileage 928..worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what you paid for it....AND you will need to spend $20-40K to keep it looking like it did when you bought it and make it reliable for everyday use.
Cat 3- Higher Mileage stock "almost" perfect very well maintained "Driver" versions for $30K+
Cat 2 is a smarter choice than 1 or 3 if you plan to enjoy it as intended IMHO.
Thankfully there are more like this than another catagory.
Cat 3- Higher Mileage (60+) DRIVER versions for $15K-20K+ that have just been driven and the hood never been opened, probably not until the timing belt breaks and crashes most of the valves
These are "restoration" candidates that with $20K-30K spent on them may put them in "Cat 2"...unless they need paint also, then add another $10K.
And from what I have seen available in the past few years, in a "Category" by itself is Greg's GTS.....that looks just as good (proven fact by winning Best of Show so many times), drives BETTER, and I will bet is more reliable than most if not all "Cat 1" GTS'. Not to mention all the tasteful enhancements (that are bolt on parts that do not perm mod the GTS) that IMHO are being literally given away at the asking price.
It all depends on what you want, and more so what you want to do with your GTS (or any 928)....and there choices out there for everyone.
But OK, yes it is personal for me..I have known Greg and his GTS (and his other 928s) for ages..and I RESPECT how he takes care of them AND uses them maturely as they were designed to be used....instead of just looking at them.
On top of that, it personally makes me sick at my stomach that Greg may need to sell his GTS...I can relate, I had to do the same with both of mine the past few years...it sucks! So when I see certain people(not you Gary) in this thread poo-pooing his asking price that do hack repairs on their own 928s, yet pass judgement on a properly and perfectly maintained and cared for GTS they have never seen...well, it sets me off...sorry about that!
When I say walk away, I flew from Atlanta to Boston on a one way ticket with $10K cash in each shoe and a $10K Cashiers Check planning to drive it back. The condition was exactly as described and should have been for an 18K mile GTS...and I knew if had a replacement engine...but when I saw the Auto Markings on the block I went back to the airport bought a ticket with some of the cash i had and flew back to ATL.
So, maybe that shows you I really don't have a clue either...and certainly not a "car dealer" :-)
Funny thing is, if you were to sit that same 18K mile GTS beside Greg's GTS with 129K miles today ...I would still pay more for his. But I can say that with all certainty because I have seen and driven both first hand and IMHPO Greg's is the better value.
I love all this talk about "mileage", reminds of the paragraph in the large 89S4 Factory Lit about the owner who contacted the Porsche museum about his 300,000 mile S4. He thought they would want it in the museum to show off how it still looked/ran new after 300,000 miles. The story was they literally laughed at him and the comment was something like "this is what we expect out of any 928...let us know when you have 2 or 3 times that much and we will revist the subject".
I have always said that I would rather have a higher mileage 928 than a low mileage one..IF I plan to really enjoy the 928 the way it was intended...you know, drive it instead of just looking at and/or just showing it off occasionally.
When it comes to GTS 5-Speeds for sale there are basically 3 catagories..
Cat 1- Super Low Mileage perfect versions for $80-$100K+ that have just been polished and stared at
Those are fantastic..for looking at. If you actually drive and enjoy it for a few years, guess what, you now have a higher mileage 928..worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what you paid for it....AND you will need to spend $20-40K to keep it looking like it did when you bought it and make it reliable for everyday use.
Cat 3- Higher Mileage stock "almost" perfect very well maintained "Driver" versions for $30K+
Cat 2 is a smarter choice than 1 or 3 if you plan to enjoy it as intended IMHO.
Thankfully there are more like this than another catagory.
Cat 3- Higher Mileage (60+) DRIVER versions for $15K-20K+ that have just been driven and the hood never been opened, probably not until the timing belt breaks and crashes most of the valves
These are "restoration" candidates that with $20K-30K spent on them may put them in "Cat 2"...unless they need paint also, then add another $10K.
And from what I have seen available in the past few years, in a "Category" by itself is Greg's GTS.....that looks just as good (proven fact by winning Best of Show so many times), drives BETTER, and I will bet is more reliable than most if not all "Cat 1" GTS'. Not to mention all the tasteful enhancements (that are bolt on parts that do not perm mod the GTS) that IMHO are being literally given away at the asking price.
It all depends on what you want, and more so what you want to do with your GTS (or any 928)....and there choices out there for everyone.
But OK, yes it is personal for me..I have known Greg and his GTS (and his other 928s) for ages..and I RESPECT how he takes care of them AND uses them maturely as they were designed to be used....instead of just looking at them.
On top of that, it personally makes me sick at my stomach that Greg may need to sell his GTS...I can relate, I had to do the same with both of mine the past few years...it sucks! So when I see certain people(not you Gary) in this thread poo-pooing his asking price that do hack repairs on their own 928s, yet pass judgement on a properly and perfectly maintained and cared for GTS they have never seen...well, it sets me off...sorry about that!
07-07-2011, 04:24 PM
#47
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But I did stay at a Holiday Express one night, can't recall when, but I know I did somewhere, sometime.
Sorry about the slang "Auto markings" , what I meant was the Engine Type Stamping on the Block.. ie, M28/49 (5-speed) GTS engine vs M28/50 (auto) GTS engine.
Pretty sure there is a website where someone listed all the engine types that can help get you up to speed on the different engine type markings and engine serial number ranges.... oh wait, that was me..LOL
http://www.928gt.com/t-928engine.aspx
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07-07-2011, 04:29 PM
#48
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But yes, I would consider some of your GTS' "Cat 1"...and there is nothing wrong with that, it obviously makes you very happy and that is what it is all about for each individual!
BTW, that is much better than if I said they were "Cat 3s", right?
07-07-2011, 04:45 PM
#50
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Just an FYI,
But OK, yes it is personal for me..I have known Greg and his GTS (and his other 928s) for ages..and I RESPECT how he takes care of them AND uses them maturely as they were designed to be used....instead of just looking at them.
On top of that, it personally makes me sick at my stomach that Greg may need to sell his GTS...I can relate, I had to do the same with both of mine the past few years...it sucks! So when I see certain people(not you Gary) in this thread poo-pooing his asking price that do hack repairs on their own 928s, yet pass judgement on a properly and perfectly maintained and cared for GTS they have never seen...well, it sets me off...sorry about that!
But OK, yes it is personal for me..I have known Greg and his GTS (and his other 928s) for ages..and I RESPECT how he takes care of them AND uses them maturely as they were designed to be used....instead of just looking at them.
On top of that, it personally makes me sick at my stomach that Greg may need to sell his GTS...I can relate, I had to do the same with both of mine the past few years...it sucks! So when I see certain people(not you Gary) in this thread poo-pooing his asking price that do hack repairs on their own 928s, yet pass judgement on a properly and perfectly maintained and cared for GTS they have never seen...well, it sets me off...sorry about that!
07-07-2011, 05:01 PM
#51
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Here are a few things I take exception with (none of this is directed at Greg or his car - he knows I think the world of him and is one of the best friends I've made through the 928 community):
Really? More than mine? BTW, the 18k mile GTS you referred to is here: http://www.928registry.org/1995-928/...28GTS-0069.htm or, at least this is the one you and I spoke about all those years ago.....
Like it or not, mileage is king. Greg's car is one of the best for sure but the miles will hurt the value.
Ouch! 
Not to worry, I won't "show it off" any longer.....
Sure, if you buy a 10k mile car and put 90k miles on it that would be about right.... At least it is with every other "normal" car out there. Anyone who would do that and expect it to maintain the value is a fool.
So, more specifically, if all of a sudden I started to drive mine every day and put a pile of miles on it, I should expect to spend $20-40k? Sorry, I'm not buying that one....
Nevermind the BOS stuff (might be a little exaggeration there?)..... You really think a 129k mile car is more reliable then my 13k mile GTS? I don't..... Not for a second.
Ouch again! Personal for me too....
Like it or not, mileage is king. Greg's car is one of the best for sure but the miles will hurt the value.
Not to worry, I won't "show it off" any longer.....Cat 1- Super Low Mileage perfect versions for $80-$100K+ that have just been polished and stared at
Those are fantastic..for looking at. If you actually drive and enjoy it for a few years, guess what, you now have a higher mileage 928..worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what you paid for it....AND you will need to spend $20-40K to keep it looking like it did when you bought it and make it reliable for everyday use.
Those are fantastic..for looking at. If you actually drive and enjoy it for a few years, guess what, you now have a higher mileage 928..worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what you paid for it....AND you will need to spend $20-40K to keep it looking like it did when you bought it and make it reliable for everyday use.
So, more specifically, if all of a sudden I started to drive mine every day and put a pile of miles on it, I should expect to spend $20-40k? Sorry, I'm not buying that one....
Ouch again! Personal for me too....
07-07-2011, 05:15 PM
#52
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No need for an apology, you didn't "strike a nerve' with me...seeing one of my fellow 928ers possibly have to sell their 928s hurts and does strike a nerve.....especially when I have known them for over a decade, and even more so when I have spent so much time "in person" with them.
Most people don't really know how personally involved I have gotten with so many 928ers over the last couple of decades.... so many of you are literally family to me.
Funny story for you, years ago Greg and I worked together over months to get just the perfect offsets for the Kinesis wheels without the factory spacers (1st of their kind, now used on many other GTSs). When they arrived Greg couldn't wait for them to be shipped, so he drove over from KY to here to get them in person.
Since it was a quickie and I had a downed 928 on the lift we had to use floor jacks out on the driveway in front of the office. So he and I jacked up the rear first since we were more concerned about those offsets (BTW, did I tell you he is ****).. They were perfect and made Greg smile as only he can...then we went to the front and mounted them.
After a quick test drive we came back and Greg saw some indentions in the asphalt from the floor jack (he knew I had recently paid over $10K to pave my driveway)...he said did we just do that, I said yes, but it's no biggie...he got really upset and started apologizing and offered to fix it. I said "Greg, no way would I ever fix that, it will be a reminder of this Happy day spent with you as long as I live here"..
I see those marks all the time and think of him...here they are 7 years, 1 month and 17 days later (just went out and snapped this pic)...if someone ever tried to fix those marks they would leave here with extra lead in their ***!
Yeah, I am a setimental old fool :-)
07-07-2011, 05:23 PM
#53
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For some reason, this group tends towards cannibalism when it comes to cars offered. 99% of the lusters already have a 928, and don't want to or can't afford Greg's car or Afshin's car or Dan's car or... Yet we trash talk them needlessly, driving down the market for the cars we already own. STOP DOING THAT! You steal money from Greg and ultimately from all of us. Consider instead building the image of all the cars, starting with this one.
(!!!!!!)
(!!!!!!)
07-07-2011, 05:28 PM
#54
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Chuck,
Sorry if you take it that way, it's not meant that way, I thought this thread was about Greg's GTS, it's only about you if YOU make it that way.
My apologies to you if you feel it is otherwise, not my intention here. The references were in response to low mileage 928s vs higher mileage 928s, and the intended purposes of such.
Cheers,
Sorry if you take it that way, it's not meant that way, I thought this thread was about Greg's GTS, it's only about you if YOU make it that way.
My apologies to you if you feel it is otherwise, not my intention here. The references were in response to low mileage 928s vs higher mileage 928s, and the intended purposes of such.
Cheers,
07-07-2011, 05:31 PM
#55
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For some reason, this group tends towards cannibalism when it comes to cars offered. 99% of the lusters already have a 928, and don't want to or can't afford Greg's car or Afshin's car or Dan's car or... Yet we trash talk them needlessly, driving down the market for the cars we already own. STOP DOING THAT! You steal money from Greg and ultimately from all of us. Consider instead building the image of all the cars, starting with this one.
(!!!!!!)
(!!!!!!)
07-07-2011, 05:37 PM
#56
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Chuck,
Sorry if you take it that way, it's not meant that way, I thought this thread was about Greg's GTS, it's only about you if YOU make it that way.
My apologies to you if you feel it is otherwise, not my intention here. The references were in response to low mileage 928s vs higher mileage 928s, and the intended purposes of such.
Cheers,
Sorry if you take it that way, it's not meant that way, I thought this thread was about Greg's GTS, it's only about you if YOU make it that way.
My apologies to you if you feel it is otherwise, not my intention here. The references were in response to low mileage 928s vs higher mileage 928s, and the intended purposes of such.
Cheers,
07-07-2011, 05:56 PM
#57
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Chuck,
I know you take concours type stuff and winning car shows seriously and I respect that, but dang, I never knew you were this senstive about this kind of stuff, you have my sincere apologies.
Have a good one,
I know you take concours type stuff and winning car shows seriously and I respect that, but dang, I never knew you were this senstive about this kind of stuff, you have my sincere apologies.
Have a good one,
07-07-2011, 06:03 PM
#58
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When I read what I perceive as thinly veiled insults I do take those comments personally especially from someone I considered a dear friend!
BTW, I haven't done a full blown concours (and NOT concourse!!!) event since Kermit at 2008 PCA Parade; other than that I haven't done one in ~10 years.
07-07-2011, 06:08 PM
#59
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Thought so.
When I read what I perceive as thinly veiled insults I do take those comments personally especially from someone I considered a dear friend!
BTW, I haven't done a full blown concours (and NOT concourse!!!) event since Kermit at 2008 PCA Parade; other than that I haven't done one in ~10 years.
When I read what I perceive as thinly veiled insults I do take those comments personally especially from someone I considered a dear friend!
BTW, I haven't done a full blown concours (and NOT concourse!!!) event since Kermit at 2008 PCA Parade; other than that I haven't done one in ~10 years.
Pretty please.
07-07-2011, 06:15 PM
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I have said all I needed to......
I hope everything is good with Greg. Unfortunately, we (you, me, others and maybe Greg?) know all too well about personal misfortune and tough times.....
I do agree with you that Greg's GTS is worth every penny he is asking and more. Best wishes to him and best of luck with the sale of his prized GTS.
I hope everything is good with Greg. Unfortunately, we (you, me, others and maybe Greg?) know all too well about personal misfortune and tough times.....
I do agree with you that Greg's GTS is worth every penny he is asking and more. Best wishes to him and best of luck with the sale of his prized GTS.