EspritS4s

DR,
I greatly respect your opinion on this and other topics, and have aggressively supported 928 Specialists repeatedly in the past here, but I think that you're off base on this. I'm lumped into the negativity crowd and don't fit into your categories B and C. I guess that leaves A, but I have spent a lot of time watching 928 transactions over the last decade (retail, private party, and wholesale) and have purchased five of my own over the years, so I feel qualified to at least offer an opinion based on the information provided.

Frankly, I'm surprised to see someone in the business be so emotional when it comes to an advertised 928 price. Obviously Greg has decided that his car is worth (or at least that he will take) $33K. In this economy, these types of cars rarely sell at the asking price. Time will tell I guess.

Kevin in Atlanta

The proof is in the pudding. Do a search on Porsche 928 GTS on EBay and look at the completed sales. None of them sold. No matter the price or mileage they did not sell. You can price it to make what you think it is worth or you can price it to sell it. No different than trying to sell your house. Any realtor can tell you your house is a million dollar house. But, until you sell it it's still 150k home. I am a realist. :-(

EspritS4s

The last one I recall selling through Ebay (although not actually through a completed auction) was the '93 Amazon Green MT example in Texas. It was not in the same condition as this car, but it had 99K miles with a huge stack of service receipts going back to when the owner bought it at ~30K miles which showed that he spared little expense in maintaining the car. I recall Roger endorsing it at the time as a customer's car. The first auction ended with no sale. The second auction ended early after the seller published the entire stack of service records, but I believe it sold for between $21 and $24K based on the starting and BIN prices. To anyone who likes Amazon Green (I love the color), that was a great price from a seller who really wanted to sell the car.

DR

Hmmm, so because I am in the business I can't have a personal opinion, and/or be "emotional" by balancing some of the uninformed crap here with some real first hand knowledge of the car and my opinion of it's value??

Sorry, my bad!

EspritS4s

Nope, you're entitled to your opinion. Just like I once thought that the rest of us here were as well... You might even be right

Most of my family is in the car business and has been for three generations, and I'm just used to a more detached view on cars and their values from those I know who deal with them day in and day out.

Marine Blue

+928 on both posts.

Those that doubt what the car will sell for are simply not comparing apples to apples. Car condition, maintenance history and rarity play a huge role in the final outcome of what a car will sell for. I know three 1990 GT's which have sold for over $33K in the past year, mileage ranging from 23K up to 36K miles. I know of two GTS's with low miles (5spd) which have sold for over $60K. One really low mile GTS sold for $106K. These are hard facts, not opinions.

Greg will get his price if he really wants it.

EspritS4s

What does this have to do with a 130K miles GTS?

I don't have any doubt that the seller can get his asking price eventually, especially if he is as patient as you were, Afshin. I just don't agree with people slamming other Rennlister's speculation on what a car might sell for when it is posted here. I don't see much restraint from even the most experienced Rennlisters when it comes to speculation on the older examples (or outrage, with the exception of a particular moderator who will defend the honor of pre '87s - Hacker, don't ban me). But when GT or GTS values come up, particularly known examples, the ranks close and this place becomes pretty intolerant.

curt_928

Apples to apples, oranges to oranges. I agree with Gary and Tiburon..

36k car is not a 130k car. It will sell (if...) for what the market will bear.

inactiveuser1

3 cars sitting on Ebay right now.
33,000 to 47,000miles same price range.
It depends on whos looking to buy when these cars are up for sale.
Like someone said wait long enough usually they sell.
An old used car salesmen always said:There is an *** for every seat.

EspritS4s

To be fair, those three all have automatic transmissions which makes them more common to offset, at least partially, the mileage differences.

Chuck Z

^^ this topic has been the source of much consternation around here over the years and you can pretty much count on it whenever the discussion comes up. Fact is, most of the GTS/GTs that sold for low numbers were either sold by an uniformed seller, a seller that needed to sell fast and/or b/c of the high miles the car needed much TLC. There are a finite number of these cars that will ever be for sale and since that number is relatively small, the target audience doesn't need to be very large for a seller to get a reasonable number. IF, that seller is willing to wait for that buyer to show up.

The GT/GTS (or any 928 for that matter) cannot be compared to more common mass produced vehicles (include most modern day Porsches) and most so called "experts" have erroneous info at best. As time goes by, examples such as Greg's will become fewer and further apart in their availability.

I hope Greg gets what he wants for it but honestly, as nice as his car is; the miles will diminish the value somewhat. Maybe he's already factored that in?

Marine Blue

Don't get me wrong, everyone has a right to voice an opinion and I wasn't slamming anyone but I think it's important that current owners take a more positive attitude towards the cars they own. I never understood why anyone wouldn't want someone who has a similar car to get the best price they can. Eventually it will help improve the breed as values go up and people are willing to spend more to properly maintain them.

The higher miles will make Gregs car a hard sell BUT if it's as well maintained as everyone says then it's truly worth it. The right buyer would be someone who wants a GTS, intends to drive it regularly and wants something that is going to be reliable with basic upkeep. Most high mile cars need tons of work and most everyone here would know that at least $10K can be added to the cost of any car almost immediately to catch up on maintenance. This car is ready to go, no hassles are catch up needed.

THe only other issue I see with the sale of Greg's car is that very few banks will lend that much for this car which means the buyer will need to have cash to purchase. Anyone with that much cash to purchase might consider a lower mileage GT or possibly a lower mileage GTS. Needle in a haystack.

If he waits he will find the right buyer but it will take time.

Landseer

Lots of passion here.

If data is comprhensive, then it needs catalytic convertor, matched tires and a timing belt job.
Brake pads were replaced a while ago, but not rotors, so I'd look for that.
Needs AC work, probably straightforward.
So I'd budget a few thousand more than the price.

Appears to be in beautiful cosmetic condition.
I'd need confirmation it was never boosted.

Am wary of rennlister value group-think, high and low sides of market.
Luv ya, mean it, but there's a tendency for circle jerking.

DR

Just an FYI, I have never sold cars for a living (and no one in my family is in the car business, they are much smarter than me :-)...Heck, I walked away from a 93 Black on Black 5-speed with 18k miles on it years ago that was only $30K....just because the NEW replacement motor(one of "those" early GTS rod issues) from Porshe had "auto" markings.

When I say walk away, I flew from Atlanta to Boston on a one way ticket with $10K cash in each shoe and a $10K Cashiers Check planning to drive it back. The condition was exactly as described and should have been for an 18K mile GTS...and I knew if had a replacement engine...but when I saw the Auto Markings on the block I went back to the airport bought a ticket with some of the cash i had and flew back to ATL.

So, maybe that shows you I really don't have a clue either...and certainly not a "car dealer" :-)

Funny thing is, if you were to sit that same 18K mile GTS beside Greg's GTS with 129K miles today ...I would still pay more for his. But I can say that with all certainty because I have seen and driven both first hand and IMHPO Greg's is the better value.

I love all this talk about "mileage", reminds of the paragraph in the large 89S4 Factory Lit about the owner who contacted the Porsche museum about his 300,000 mile S4. He thought they would want it in the museum to show off how it still looked/ran new after 300,000 miles. The story was they literally laughed at him and the comment was something like "this is what we expect out of any 928...let us know when you have 2 or 3 times that much and we will revist the subject".

I have always said that I would rather have a higher mileage 928 than a low mileage one..IF I plan to really enjoy the 928 the way it was intended...you know, drive it instead of just looking at and/or just showing it off occasionally.

When it comes to GTS 5-Speeds for sale there are basically 3 catagories..

Cat 1- Super Low Mileage perfect versions for $80-$100K+ that have just been polished and stared at
Those are fantastic..for looking at. If you actually drive and enjoy it for a few years, guess what, you now have a higher mileage 928..worth 1/2 to 1/3 of what you paid for it....AND you will need to spend $20-40K to keep it looking like it did when you bought it and make it reliable for everyday use.

Cat 3- Higher Mileage stock "almost" perfect very well maintained "Driver" versions for $30K+

Cat 2 is a smarter choice than 1 or 3 if you plan to enjoy it as intended IMHO.
Thankfully there are more like this than another catagory.

Cat 3- Higher Mileage (60+) DRIVER versions for $15K-20K+ that have just been driven and the hood never been opened, probably not until the timing belt breaks and crashes most of the valves

These are "restoration" candidates that with $20K-30K spent on them may put them in "Cat 2"...unless they need paint also, then add another $10K.

And from what I have seen available in the past few years, in a "Category" by itself is Greg's GTS.....that looks just as good (proven fact by winning Best of Show so many times), drives BETTER, and I will bet is more reliable than most if not all "Cat 1" GTS'. Not to mention all the tasteful enhancements (that are bolt on parts that do not perm mod the GTS) that IMHO are being literally given away at the asking price.

It all depends on what you want, and more so what you want to do with your GTS (or any 928)....and there choices out there for everyone.

But OK, yes it is personal for me..I have known Greg and his GTS (and his other 928s) for ages..and I RESPECT how he takes care of them AND uses them maturely as they were designed to be used....instead of just looking at them.

On top of that, it personally makes me sick at my stomach that Greg may need to sell his GTS...I can relate, I had to do the same with both of mine the past few years...it sucks! So when I see certain people(not you Gary) in this thread poo-pooing his asking price that do hack repairs on their own 928s, yet pass judgement on a properly and perfectly maintained and cared for GTS they have never seen...well, it sets me off...sorry about that!

ender928

Spot on DR with everything I'm a noob though and just curious about the "auto markings"? I tried to search but got nothing.