Great example of something that did not work. Hopefully this experiment wasn't on your "nickel". Like I said, I've not seen any successful examples of any coated/plated pistons that actually work in the Alusil bores....except for the "factory pistons", although more have been tried than should have.

Seems like there have been many builders that have tried coatings and plating on Wiseco pistons, that hasn't worked. Phil Theshie followed closely in these footsteps and did "experiments" (with customer money....wait a minute....isn't there someone else doing this, right now?) with Wiseco pistons. I've redone a couple of these engines.....which ran for very short periods of time (minutes, not hours).

I believe that Devek also used "Chevy" offset connecting rods, which absolutely were incorrect and cause severe "thrusting" of the pistons into the cylinders. With the "Chevy" offset rod, even if the iron plating might have worked, the pistons never had a chance, due to the extreme pressures that the thrusting of the pistons placed on the cylinders. I worked very closely with the engineers at Carrrillo, who computer modeled the "Chevy" offset connecting rod inside a 928 engine. The forces transfered to the cylinder walls from this incorrect offset were staggering.

Luckily, the plating on the "factory pistons" is very well applied and sticks extrememly well to the pistons. These seem to be the only pistons that did survive with the "Chevy" offset problem, although the thrust force is very easy seen, when the pistons and rod bearings subjected to this abuse are examined.

 

Some of the pics are still up on a much earlier thread on that engine:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...28-engine.html

 

Was this something they did on all the built motors they made? Or just on the ones 6.4 and up? Or do ya know?

I know, lots of questions.

 

No idea. Marc was here...maybe he will answer this.

I don't think he should/would be "sensitive" to this issue...it's just part of engine development. If everything worked perfectly, the first attempt, "development" would need to be changed to "developed".

Marc will always be known as a major contributor to the 928 performance world.

 

The bottom line to the question that the OP asked is pretty simple, if you want one that is pro built by some one that has built more than a couple, there really is only one choice.

 

No, no Greg - you have us confused. My experimental parts are not sold, offered, or ever installed on any one's car but my own. I would never install experimental bits onto a customer's engine - thats your deal.

Like the $3000 to $4000 "oil control kit" you just wrote about. Untested, first one ever built, and there it sits on a customer's car.

Not me, dude.

 

Z - I dont think Kelly-Moss wants to do any more 928 work from what I hear.

Yes, there a number of engine assemblers and a few builders around the globe who do/have done a good job. I ship valves and pistons overseas with some regularity and the builders over there install them and do a nice job. Very few have the $$ to have an complete engine shipped 'round the world, so this is a good solution for them.

Another name I expected to see mentioned and have not is Paul Anderson in the UK. Has a solid reputation, been around for years.

 

Blown87, we are a supercharger kit builder. So naturally, most of the engines I am requested to build are prepared for boost, that is: sleeved. The question was: "how many stroker motors have you built" and I answered honestly. Had the question been "how many 928 engines have you built" the answer would have been different.

How many? Well, Greg is partially right, I did purchase all the crap left in the Phil Threshie warehouse. I was after the bare blocks, cranks, and unmolested heads and cams for cores. There was a lot of wild-eyed thinking at 928 Developments, and his plasma-welded camshaft experiments and Tri-Y header mess went right into the dumpster with a lot of similar useless bits.

But the bare engines, cranks, and heads that he hadn't messed up were allright, and thats what I was after.

All those engines are built and shipped, and just recently I was running very low on good cores. Last month I drove to Philly to grab a deal on bare blocks and heads from Mason's defunct business. Again, just to secure more cores at a good price for my customers.

Somebody in this thread added up an engine built by Greg and a similar engine built by us and figured Greg's was $40,000 and our's was $30,000. Maybe this is one of the reason's why.

Look - Greg HAS built more 928 engines than I have and I have said so. And I bet, as 928 engines is all he does and it is not all I do, that this trend will continue.

But to say something like "there is only 1 guy in the world who can do a good job of building a 928 motor" is just nuts. There are many.

And as you know, I like to think we offer a more complete selection of the ancillary bits you need for a High Performance build (the heads, cams, big valves, performance valve springs, head gaskets, pistons, intake manifold research (16v and 32v), oil control kits and scrapers, etc).

So I can't offer more years of experience than Greg. I know. So I offer a better price and more published R&D and engine performance products than he does.

 

Carl, come over here please. Greg, you too.

You guys have both accomplished a lot, and contributed a lot to this community, but your styles are very different. Which leads to some disagreements.

Carl, Greg over here has been building engines for a very long time. Give him credit for being careful, thoughtful, and smart. Your last "untested" remark was uncalled for. If you've followed the oil-control thread then I'm sure you appreciate the testing that was done. I've seen the setup on Rob's car, I understand how it works, and it is good, solid engineering. And he's done the testing.

And Carl, your efforts are also impressive, and I really want to see your Bonneville effort be successful.

Nobody is asking you guys to get along, but can we please take it down a notch and not **** on the customers also?

Thanks.

 

I never said there was just one person who can build a great 928 motor Carl, what the OP asked was "what company builds the best stroker" I normally do not consider a non pro, no matter how good he is, and there are several here that are very good to be a company.

Read what I wrote.


You started my involvement in this thread by implying that you were the LEADER in 928 stroker engines and IMHO you are not, by your own admission you have built 2, one in your car.

By that criteria I am a leader in the field of stock rebuilds, I have done 2, well really one and a partial.

I will be building a stroker soon though, maybe I can be a leader also.

More 928 strokers, built and installed in sharpsburg than anybody

As far as I am concerned it was you who made the misleading statements.

Like what you just wrote, to the unknowing it would come across as you having the only heads, oil pan spacers
and many other parts.
I fully understand why GB does not list his parts, as you do also, why is that Carl?

I have told Greg Brown that he is his worst enemy at times, but I swear you are miles past GB in that regard.

How you handled the control arm issue cost you more than you will ever know, of that I am sure.

I got to say, you two would make far better friends than enemies, but my guess is it has went way to far for that.

 

Blown 87 - I never said that i was the leader in 928 Stroker engines. If that is the way it sounded to you, I am sorry. In fact, I have posted out several times that I have only built a couple strokers - as I am asked to build sleeved motors much more often.

What I DID say was this: "The leader in engine developments" is what I said. And I still think that is a correct statement.

 

Jim - you are right and right.

I watched this thread for 8 pages before I even joined it because I feared exactly this would happen.
Try to sit on my hands as I may, I can only take so much.

My response to installing experimental parts on customers motors WAS called for, as it was in response to Greg's insinuation that we do that. We do not.

Still, your point is valid and I would welcome the opportunity to take the discussion to a higher plane.

 

What ever you say Carl, but that is exactly what you implied.

 

I hope a price war breaks out. I would definitely pull the trigger on a $5k stroker engine.

Just trying to lighten things up a bit.

GB and Carl are 2 different experts on the 928 engine. One specializes in strokers and the other specializes in purpose-built boosted engines. You guys ought to pass the peace pipe, but I know it's not that simple.

 

I am done here, said what I wanted to say, you guys carry on.