928 Steering Rack Replacement Questions
05-10-2011, 03:04 AM
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928 Steering Rack Replacement Questions
So - I'm in the middle of a 928 Steering Rack Replacement (actually - I just got the car and this is my first post).
Background - my car is a 1984 928S Auto - and the power steering was dead - and fluid just poured out of each end of the rack when you went from lock to lock.
Anyway - I ordered a new rack of ebay and new rack mounts - however the new rack didn't come with new tie rods or tie rod ends (but it was cheap and rebuilt) - also its from a 1987 928 S4...how different can it be...right?
Here is the ebay link to my purchase
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT
So now at this point I was planning on just swapping the tie rod and tie rod ends...but it looks like the over all rack length changed - and there is some cryptic info in the shop manual that says that in 1986 the tie rod ends change and the steering stop changed the likely the spacer listed as 8a in my photo below was obsoleted..?
More photos
Ok - so, now that you see what i have -- do I need the 1986.5+ tie rods? And do I need spacer (8a) with the new style tie-rods?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...281986.5-On%29
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories
Final question -- from which direction (bottom as mounted in car - or top?) do I install the new steering rack bushings?
these parts:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...2C%20928%20all
The old ones are so hideous its hard to tell which way I should press them out.
And do I need parts 19 & 20 with the new rack?
My disabled 928 on my lift thanks you in advance.
Background - my car is a 1984 928S Auto - and the power steering was dead - and fluid just poured out of each end of the rack when you went from lock to lock.
Anyway - I ordered a new rack of ebay and new rack mounts - however the new rack didn't come with new tie rods or tie rod ends (but it was cheap and rebuilt) - also its from a 1987 928 S4...how different can it be...right?
Here is the ebay link to my purchase
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT
So now at this point I was planning on just swapping the tie rod and tie rod ends...but it looks like the over all rack length changed - and there is some cryptic info in the shop manual that says that in 1986 the tie rod ends change and the steering stop changed the likely the spacer listed as 8a in my photo below was obsoleted..?
More photos
Ok - so, now that you see what i have -- do I need the 1986.5+ tie rods? And do I need spacer (8a) with the new style tie-rods?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...281986.5-On%29
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories
Final question -- from which direction (bottom as mounted in car - or top?) do I install the new steering rack bushings?
these parts:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...2C%20928%20all
The old ones are so hideous its hard to tell which way I should press them out.
And do I need parts 19 & 20 with the new rack?
My disabled 928 on my lift thanks you in advance.
05-10-2011, 06:03 AM
#2
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Hi there and welcome to the shark tank.
First of all, you will need the proper steering rack for your MY. As you noted the rack length changed somewhere during the series. Wheather you need new tie rods depends on the condition of the old tie rods, but it is wise to replace them anyhow. Also replace the steering rack boots.
Any of these specialized 928 vendors carry what you need: 928 Specialists, 928 International, 928'sR us.
There are upgraded steering rack bushings (installed from below btw) made from delrin available from roger@928srus.com.
And, while you are in there, might as well change the motor mounts and the oil pan gasket (and..and...and...but we'll get to that
).
Welcome once again and good luck.
First of all, you will need the proper steering rack for your MY. As you noted the rack length changed somewhere during the series. Wheather you need new tie rods depends on the condition of the old tie rods, but it is wise to replace them anyhow. Also replace the steering rack boots.
Any of these specialized 928 vendors carry what you need: 928 Specialists, 928 International, 928'sR us.
There are upgraded steering rack bushings (installed from below btw) made from delrin available from roger@928srus.com.
And, while you are in there, might as well change the motor mounts and the oil pan gasket (and..and...and...but we'll get to that
).Welcome once again and good luck.
05-10-2011, 08:59 AM
#3
Drifting
The rack you bought is actually a used rack from a dismantler. You should check the mileage on the car that the rack came from, otherwise you might be back in to do another steering rack swap soon. I just got a rebuilt one from 928 International and it came with new bushings already installed.
Dona search and their are a lot of write-ups with pictures on how to do the job.
Dona search and their are a lot of write-ups with pictures on how to do the job.
05-10-2011, 09:32 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Slightly different experience here than above,
I'm using the new bump stops and an S4 rack with 84 inner and outer tierods on an 84. (am also using new bump stops on another 84 car with presumeably an 84 rack)
The rack came from Jadz928's Perl 87 car / he saw some leakage and wanted to replace it to ensure good integrity / I took the core and have run it for a while with some slight leakage and its working well.
Fitment seems to work fine.
I think the y to y rack difference can be made up in the adjustments.
When you buy the rack stops and new mounting bushings, ask for their advice.
Not a bad idea to do tierods at same time.
(I mount a wrench in the vice, set the rack-side flats into the wrench, then tap on the tierod side wrench to get it apart without stressing rack innards)
Check the steering u-joint, too, for motion and play. Have seen 3 fail now on 3 different mid year cars.
Rack mount bushings can be replaced with solid urethane or aluminum mount fillers for tighter steering.
928 International or 928s Rus both should give you appropriate advice to confirm compatibility.
The steering rack job, especially with access to a lift, is pretty easy as 928 jobs go. So, switching with a new rebuild later is easy enough / nothing to loose trying it.
PS. Power steering pump rebuild kit is simple and effective. New reservoir (filter is inside / not cleanable) and hoses ( at least the short supply hose to the pump) are recommended.
I'm using the new bump stops and an S4 rack with 84 inner and outer tierods on an 84. (am also using new bump stops on another 84 car with presumeably an 84 rack)
The rack came from Jadz928's Perl 87 car / he saw some leakage and wanted to replace it to ensure good integrity / I took the core and have run it for a while with some slight leakage and its working well.
Fitment seems to work fine.
I think the y to y rack difference can be made up in the adjustments.
When you buy the rack stops and new mounting bushings, ask for their advice.
Not a bad idea to do tierods at same time.
(I mount a wrench in the vice, set the rack-side flats into the wrench, then tap on the tierod side wrench to get it apart without stressing rack innards)
Check the steering u-joint, too, for motion and play. Have seen 3 fail now on 3 different mid year cars.
Rack mount bushings can be replaced with solid urethane or aluminum mount fillers for tighter steering.
928 International or 928s Rus both should give you appropriate advice to confirm compatibility.
The steering rack job, especially with access to a lift, is pretty easy as 928 jobs go. So, switching with a new rebuild later is easy enough / nothing to loose trying it.
PS. Power steering pump rebuild kit is simple and effective. New reservoir (filter is inside / not cleanable) and hoses ( at least the short supply hose to the pump) are recommended.
05-10-2011, 10:29 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Congratulations on the car, and welcome!
I don't see "rebuilt" in the eBay ad, it looks like another used rack. Unless a miracle has occurred, it will need rebuilding and its value to you is as a core, in exchange for a rebuilt. But you have one of those, already.
You have a wonderful resource down the street from you: 928 International in Anaheim. Their rebuilt racks are generally in stock and now come with a 3-year warranty, click on "Shop" and type "steering rack" into the search-box. It is hard to beat that. And they stock most 928 parts, new or used, and can probably get everything to you the next day.
There are two racks listed for 82-95, I would call them and get their advice as to which one.
The spacer shown in your drawing goes back to '81. There is a tech bulletin showing three different rack versions, with the spacer eliminated in the "latest"-- but that bulletin is dated 1981 (copy below). That is of historical interest only, for your car.
There was also a change to the end-stops and boots in July '84, from the picture you have the earlier version. These are superseded with the new style (as included with the rack from LA Dismantlers) and also requires new boots. This was also the subject of a tech bulletin, 8501 below.
There are two issues which require the rack be rebuilt: One is worn internal bushings, which cause radial (sideways) play in the rack rod, particularly at the driver's end. With the rack on the bench, grab the rack housing with one hand and the rod with the other, and try to wiggle the rod, perpendicular to its axis-- firmly and with intent. Does the rod move relative to the housing? If so, the bushings are worn. This leads to vague steering and difficulty with alignment.
Hydraulic issues are more obvious, and become an issue once the worn bushings get to the point where the seals can no longer seal.
And mounting bushings disintegrate over time, which allows the whole rack to wander back and forth. A rebuilt rack will come with new bushings, so it is not worthwhile fooling with that-- unless you want to try to make the used rack work, but that is not likely worthwhile, either. At least check it for play, first.
The simple test for tie-rods is whether they move under their own weight. With the tie-rod attached to the rack, lift the tie-rod end off the bench: Does it stay where you position it? Or drop back down to the bench? If it drops by itself, then it is close to gone- the ball joint is worn and getting loose. Tie-rods are not particularly expensive and are pretty important, so I would go ahead and replace them.
Note the 1981 date on this bulletin. This shows the extra spacer, long gone when your car was built:
This shows the replacement of the end-stops (as on your old rack) with the new version, which requires the newer style boot.
Note that the "new stop" in the bulletin above, is the "old stop" below:
I don't see "rebuilt" in the eBay ad, it looks like another used rack. Unless a miracle has occurred, it will need rebuilding and its value to you is as a core, in exchange for a rebuilt. But you have one of those, already.
You have a wonderful resource down the street from you: 928 International in Anaheim. Their rebuilt racks are generally in stock and now come with a 3-year warranty, click on "Shop" and type "steering rack" into the search-box. It is hard to beat that. And they stock most 928 parts, new or used, and can probably get everything to you the next day.
There are two racks listed for 82-95, I would call them and get their advice as to which one.
The spacer shown in your drawing goes back to '81. There is a tech bulletin showing three different rack versions, with the spacer eliminated in the "latest"-- but that bulletin is dated 1981 (copy below). That is of historical interest only, for your car.
There was also a change to the end-stops and boots in July '84, from the picture you have the earlier version. These are superseded with the new style (as included with the rack from LA Dismantlers) and also requires new boots. This was also the subject of a tech bulletin, 8501 below.
There are two issues which require the rack be rebuilt: One is worn internal bushings, which cause radial (sideways) play in the rack rod, particularly at the driver's end. With the rack on the bench, grab the rack housing with one hand and the rod with the other, and try to wiggle the rod, perpendicular to its axis-- firmly and with intent. Does the rod move relative to the housing? If so, the bushings are worn. This leads to vague steering and difficulty with alignment.
Hydraulic issues are more obvious, and become an issue once the worn bushings get to the point where the seals can no longer seal.
And mounting bushings disintegrate over time, which allows the whole rack to wander back and forth. A rebuilt rack will come with new bushings, so it is not worthwhile fooling with that-- unless you want to try to make the used rack work, but that is not likely worthwhile, either. At least check it for play, first.
The simple test for tie-rods is whether they move under their own weight. With the tie-rod attached to the rack, lift the tie-rod end off the bench: Does it stay where you position it? Or drop back down to the bench? If it drops by itself, then it is close to gone- the ball joint is worn and getting loose. Tie-rods are not particularly expensive and are pretty important, so I would go ahead and replace them.
Note the 1981 date on this bulletin. This shows the extra spacer, long gone when your car was built:
This shows the replacement of the end-stops (as on your old rack) with the new version, which requires the newer style boot.
Note that the "new stop" in the bulletin above, is the "old stop" below:
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05-10-2011, 02:23 PM
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Ok - so the answer to the question - "can I use an 87 rack on an 84?" is "just do it right from the start and get the parts from a non-sketchy place." Man - I hate it when I get good advice from forums...
Also - the rack I purchased has a new sticker on it indicating a rebuild shop - and the seller offered full refund if it leaks -- but it doesn't explicitly state the rack has been rebuilt. It certainly was cleaned up and someone put a sticker on it -- I need to give it a check for "play".
I called 928 International and the dude on the phone said that the later style tie rod assy will get me what I need.
http://www.mailordercentral.com/928i...347%20031%2007
Also - the rack I purchased has a new sticker on it indicating a rebuild shop - and the seller offered full refund if it leaks -- but it doesn't explicitly state the rack has been rebuilt. It certainly was cleaned up and someone put a sticker on it -- I need to give it a check for "play".
I called 928 International and the dude on the phone said that the later style tie rod assy will get me what I need.
http://www.mailordercentral.com/928i...347%20031%2007
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05-10-2011, 03:01 PM
#9
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You can certainly cross use the racks from different years (I have done this, both ways). You only have to 1) use the correct stops for the rack you have, and 2) readjust your toe in to compensate for the different rack length.
You can rebuild either model rack yourself with a kit that is available from either Roger or rennbay. But not all racks are rebuildable. The problem is that folks let the rack boots go and then the rack itself (the long rod that goes all the way through the assembly) corrods and pits. It is just bare steel with no surface treatment at all! At that point new seals will not solve the problem or at least they will not solve it for very long. I suspect that rebuilders have some ability to grind down the rack and put in oversized seals. Either that or they cannot rebuild very many. When I was trying to fix a pitted rack someone suggested taking the rack section out and taking it to a hydraulics shop to have it ground and chromed. This would be a good long term solution, but the quotes I got on the service were much more than a rebuilt rack from a top vendor.
You can rebuild either model rack yourself with a kit that is available from either Roger or rennbay. But not all racks are rebuildable. The problem is that folks let the rack boots go and then the rack itself (the long rod that goes all the way through the assembly) corrods and pits. It is just bare steel with no surface treatment at all! At that point new seals will not solve the problem or at least they will not solve it for very long. I suspect that rebuilders have some ability to grind down the rack and put in oversized seals. Either that or they cannot rebuild very many. When I was trying to fix a pitted rack someone suggested taking the rack section out and taking it to a hydraulics shop to have it ground and chromed. This would be a good long term solution, but the quotes I got on the service were much more than a rebuilt rack from a top vendor.
05-10-2011, 05:02 PM
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Ok - thanks for the feedback guys - and the fantastic replies from the guys here convinced me to pay rennlist to be a member after only 3 posts (i've been a member of many other forums in the past but never joined the pay club). So - thanks - and I will let you guys know how this turns out.
05-10-2011, 11:07 PM
#12
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If you have a lift, help will come beating down your door. If you've got a kegorator as well, you'll probably never have to do much yourself.
Unless you're like me and don't really want hands on help because working on the car is a Zen activity.
Unless you're like me and don't really want hands on help because working on the car is a Zen activity.
05-11-2011, 12:31 AM
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05-11-2011, 01:53 AM
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^Is fun allowed at Stanford?
P.S. I went to the college on the other side of the bay.
P.P.S. I run a cooperative shop with about 10 of my co-workers/friends - we've got two lifts, full machine shop, 480V wired to our welders & beer in the fridge.
P.S. I went to the college on the other side of the bay.
P.P.S. I run a cooperative shop with about 10 of my co-workers/friends - we've got two lifts, full machine shop, 480V wired to our welders & beer in the fridge.
05-11-2011, 02:35 AM
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Haha, well they try to keep everyone in the No Fun League, but I refuse to bow down. I also have a freezer literally filled with liquor for mixed drinks. Used to throw huge parties, almost got evicted because everyone else is so lame, now I keep it low-key. Cheaper that way anyway, more cash for the shark...