selling 2005 M3 to get a S4...?
03-18-2011, 10:16 AM
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selling 2005 M3 to get a S4...?
Hello, I had a 1999 M3, now a 2005 M3 and am tired of getting new cars just for the next new version to come out and want it, too much money and hurts my ego : )
I want a sporty car I can work on myself that will is not in production anymore and I like the S4 or GT version of the 928 alot.
Question: Does anyone here know if working on a 928 S4 is any easier or cheaper than an M3, my M3 has 66k miles on it and I can sell it, get a nice S4/GT before I put to many more miles on it.
Also, I want a car I can put alot of miles on over the next 10 years and just keep repairing and modifying as necessary. I have money, just not 10-15K for a new M3 motor : )
I guess I like the uniqueness of the 928...
Please I welcome your comments...and yes I like projects, modifying my car...etc...the M3 however is limited with modifications to boost performance without spending more than the cars worth...
thanks...
I want a sporty car I can work on myself that will is not in production anymore and I like the S4 or GT version of the 928 alot.
Question: Does anyone here know if working on a 928 S4 is any easier or cheaper than an M3, my M3 has 66k miles on it and I can sell it, get a nice S4/GT before I put to many more miles on it.
Also, I want a car I can put alot of miles on over the next 10 years and just keep repairing and modifying as necessary. I have money, just not 10-15K for a new M3 motor : )
I guess I like the uniqueness of the 928...
Please I welcome your comments...and yes I like projects, modifying my car...etc...the M3 however is limited with modifications to boost performance without spending more than the cars worth...
thanks...
03-18-2011, 10:22 AM
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selling 2005 M3 to get a S4...?
Hello, I had a 1999 M3, now a 2005 M3 and am tired of getting new cars just for the next new version to come out and want it, too much money and hurts my ego : )
I want a sporty car I can work on myself that will is not in production anymore and I like the S4 or GT version of the 928 alot.
Question: Does anyone here know if working on a 928 S4 is any easier or cheaper than an M3, my M3 has 66k miles on it and I can sell it, get a nice S4/GT before I put to many more miles on it.
Also, I want a car I can put alot of miles on over the next 10 years and just keep repairing and modifying as necessary. I have money, just not 10-15K for a new M3 motor : )
I guess I like the uniqueness of the 928...
Please I welcome your comments...and yes I like projects, modifying my car...etc...the M3 however is limited with modifications to boost performance without spending more than the cars worth...
thanks...
I want a sporty car I can work on myself that will is not in production anymore and I like the S4 or GT version of the 928 alot.
Question: Does anyone here know if working on a 928 S4 is any easier or cheaper than an M3, my M3 has 66k miles on it and I can sell it, get a nice S4/GT before I put to many more miles on it.
Also, I want a car I can put alot of miles on over the next 10 years and just keep repairing and modifying as necessary. I have money, just not 10-15K for a new M3 motor : )
I guess I like the uniqueness of the 928...
Please I welcome your comments...and yes I like projects, modifying my car...etc...the M3 however is limited with modifications to boost performance without spending more than the cars worth...
thanks...
03-18-2011, 10:31 AM
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No comparison to a newer car.
You will spend muchos money and encounter lots of downtime, so a second car is needed until the Porsche is fully sorted. At about $8K purchase, add $6 to $10K parts and about 300 hours labor.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...lp-please.html
You will spend muchos money and encounter lots of downtime, so a second car is needed until the Porsche is fully sorted. At about $8K purchase, add $6 to $10K parts and about 300 hours labor.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...lp-please.html
03-18-2011, 10:38 AM
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First off, welcome.
Based on the information you present, I think the 928 would be an ideal platform for you.
Unique
Fast
Iconoclastic
No longer in production
Easy to work on
Engine is pretty bullet proof*
The key is to get a good example of one to start with so you're not paying for other people's deferred maintenance. The car are easily modified to provide performance that will easily eclipse the M3 and M5. The car will be a different feel from the bimmers, but one I think you can grow to appreciate and love.
*There are a couple things that can kill a 928 engine - both are called TBF. The first one is "Timing Belt Failure" Valves his pistons and a lot of work ensues. The short block is usually okay (assuming the pistons survive). The other failure mode is "Thrust Bearing Failure" which is predominately, if not exclusively, related to 928's with automatic transmissions. Basically, pressure builds up on the drive shaft pressing the crank forward and eroding the thrust bearing until is fails. Heads are usually still usable, but the block is generally toast.
Not trying to scare you away, just trying to educate you.
Take some time and look around and ask questions. You'll get a wide array of opinions and thoughts, but we're all very passionate about 928's and love helping potential new owners to the clan.
Based on the information you present, I think the 928 would be an ideal platform for you.
Unique
Fast
Iconoclastic
No longer in production
Easy to work on
Engine is pretty bullet proof*
The key is to get a good example of one to start with so you're not paying for other people's deferred maintenance. The car are easily modified to provide performance that will easily eclipse the M3 and M5. The car will be a different feel from the bimmers, but one I think you can grow to appreciate and love.
*There are a couple things that can kill a 928 engine - both are called TBF. The first one is "Timing Belt Failure" Valves his pistons and a lot of work ensues. The short block is usually okay (assuming the pistons survive). The other failure mode is "Thrust Bearing Failure" which is predominately, if not exclusively, related to 928's with automatic transmissions. Basically, pressure builds up on the drive shaft pressing the crank forward and eroding the thrust bearing until is fails. Heads are usually still usable, but the block is generally toast.
Not trying to scare you away, just trying to educate you.
Take some time and look around and ask questions. You'll get a wide array of opinions and thoughts, but we're all very passionate about 928's and love helping potential new owners to the clan.
03-18-2011, 10:42 AM
#5
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Welcome to the forum!
The phrase "without spending more than the cars worth..." is something that happens to all cars whether restoring, modifying and even just fixing (in most cases) -and also applies to the 928.
Even though the prices of 928's have dropped significantly since they were new -the cost of maintenence & repair has not... if anything, it is more now than it was then. Finding knowledgeable mechanics is often difficult... finding one that knows 928's is even harder.
Dealerships 'claim' that they can work on the 928 -only to find that the job takes 2 times longer, since the technician has to figure the car out first. That 7 letter word 'P-O-R-S-C-H-E' means that new parts are still pricey and often non-existent (NLA status).
However if you turn your own wrenches, can rebuild components, can re-wire a TV, etc. -then your 928 will at least maintain its value... and still turn heads!
Read the FAQ's at the top of this forum and you'll get a lot of answers to your questions. To own a 928, you will need to leave the desire to own the 'latest & greatest' and your ego at the door. The 928 was the red-headed-stepchild of Porsche and misunderstood today as it was back then. But to the diehard fans, it will always be the purest-designed Porsche of all time.
Good luck with your search!
The phrase "without spending more than the cars worth..." is something that happens to all cars whether restoring, modifying and even just fixing (in most cases) -and also applies to the 928.
Even though the prices of 928's have dropped significantly since they were new -the cost of maintenence & repair has not... if anything, it is more now than it was then. Finding knowledgeable mechanics is often difficult... finding one that knows 928's is even harder.
Dealerships 'claim' that they can work on the 928 -only to find that the job takes 2 times longer, since the technician has to figure the car out first. That 7 letter word 'P-O-R-S-C-H-E' means that new parts are still pricey and often non-existent (NLA status).
However if you turn your own wrenches, can rebuild components, can re-wire a TV, etc. -then your 928 will at least maintain its value... and still turn heads!
Read the FAQ's at the top of this forum and you'll get a lot of answers to your questions. To own a 928, you will need to leave the desire to own the 'latest & greatest' and your ego at the door. The 928 was the red-headed-stepchild of Porsche and misunderstood today as it was back then. But to the diehard fans, it will always be the purest-designed Porsche of all time.
Good luck with your search!
03-18-2011, 10:45 AM
#6
If you find a 928 that has been sorted and taken care of, it will not spend a lot of time off the road. Mines been a daily driver for 5 years and has been off the road for maybe a week or two of that time for maint.
Thanks for your service to our country.
Thanks for your service to our country.
03-18-2011, 11:29 AM
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The difference in working on a M5 VS a 928 is more of a sideways move, both can give you fits.
The biggest plus on the 928 side is no VANOS, the biggest plus on a a M5 is good gobs of power.
Part are cheaper on a 928, with out a doubt in most cases.
Repairs on both are better done by the book on both cars.
They are two very different cars.
The biggest plus on the 928 side is no VANOS, the biggest plus on a a M5 is good gobs of power.
Part are cheaper on a 928, with out a doubt in most cases.
Repairs on both are better done by the book on both cars.
They are two very different cars.
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03-18-2011, 02:51 PM
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Im interested in this as well, as i debated an M5 before i got my 928...are the parts really cheaper? it seems the labor cost on a 928 would offset any value youd get from more affordable parts just based on the 928 mechanics being more scarce than bmw m's.....i try to do as much work myself as possible, but when it comes to basically anything requiring a lift, im going to need a shop/mechanic...
03-18-2011, 03:08 PM
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From what I have seen the M5 parts are higher, even the battery is special on some of them, and high $$, cant get one from interstate, which means that Johnson controls does not make one.
Any kind of performance parts are just about in the Ferrari range.
I had one delivered today for another clutch, the last one was a Hi-Po aftermarket unit that made a DD 928 clutch look cheap, and that takes some doing.
It had a very short life span on it.
There is little doubt that a M5 is a very fast car, a wolf in sheeps clothing to the unknowing.
Any kind of performance parts are just about in the Ferrari range.
I had one delivered today for another clutch, the last one was a Hi-Po aftermarket unit that made a DD 928 clutch look cheap, and that takes some doing.
It had a very short life span on it.
There is little doubt that a M5 is a very fast car, a wolf in sheeps clothing to the unknowing.
Im interested in this as well, as i debated an M5 before i got my 928...are the parts really cheaper? it seems the labor cost on a 928 would offset any value youd get from more affordable parts just based on the 928 mechanics being more scarce than bmw m's.....i try to do as much work myself as possible, but when it comes to basically anything requiring a lift, im going to need a shop/mechanic...
03-18-2011, 03:27 PM
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Guys: The OP is talking about an M3, not M5!
I would say that the M3 is much more refined than the 928 - which is no surprise, considering it was designed about 30 years later. Yes, the 928 was pretty sophisticated at its time, and is still modern looking, but we need to acknowledge the reality that it is an early 70ies design that was merely upgraded, not redone from scratch.
Having said that, the 928 has been one of the few exotics of its time that people could drive on a daily basis. There was not much else between a Mercedes and a Ferrari that could do this. And it still can, if maintained properly.
Personally, I prefer not to drive mine every day, for a variety of reasons:
- cost
- practicality of parking, getting in-and out, worrying about door dings
- worry about being hit in heavy traffic
- lack of opportunity to stretch its legs in daily driving
- simpler, cheaper, fun alternative available to me (mooSAABi)
I would say that the M3 is much more refined than the 928 - which is no surprise, considering it was designed about 30 years later. Yes, the 928 was pretty sophisticated at its time, and is still modern looking, but we need to acknowledge the reality that it is an early 70ies design that was merely upgraded, not redone from scratch.
Having said that, the 928 has been one of the few exotics of its time that people could drive on a daily basis. There was not much else between a Mercedes and a Ferrari that could do this. And it still can, if maintained properly.
Personally, I prefer not to drive mine every day, for a variety of reasons:
- cost
- practicality of parking, getting in-and out, worrying about door dings
- worry about being hit in heavy traffic
- lack of opportunity to stretch its legs in daily driving
- simpler, cheaper, fun alternative available to me (mooSAABi)
03-18-2011, 05:28 PM
#11
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Great ??? A brief history.... I got my 1st 928 in 2004....a very nice 88 S4 automatic & loved it.......in 2008 I "went big" and ordered a E92 M3 exactly how I wanted it........drove that for 2.5 years and recently sold it....
Honestly the two cars were very similar....the M3 had the edge in terms of modern features and power...all of which are nice...but the DEPRECIATION is insane.....I bought it for $73k...sold it 2.5 years later for $49k..OUCH.... vs my 928 I bought for $15k and sold 5 years later for $14k....
The single biggest difference between the M3's you are used to and the 928 is the E36 & E46 M3 are much more nimble than the 928.... The E92 is more like the 928..... Since the 928 is so far along the depreciation curve its prices are fairly flat...& if you find one in good condition thats properly maintained if can be very inexpensive to own.....
The only 928 I own now is a dedicated race car...thats not street legal....
As always the best advice is find a well maintained example and drive it!
Honestly the two cars were very similar....the M3 had the edge in terms of modern features and power...all of which are nice...but the DEPRECIATION is insane.....I bought it for $73k...sold it 2.5 years later for $49k..OUCH.... vs my 928 I bought for $15k and sold 5 years later for $14k....
The single biggest difference between the M3's you are used to and the 928 is the E36 & E46 M3 are much more nimble than the 928.... The E92 is more like the 928..... Since the 928 is so far along the depreciation curve its prices are fairly flat...& if you find one in good condition thats properly maintained if can be very inexpensive to own.....
The only 928 I own now is a dedicated race car...thats not street legal....
As always the best advice is find a well maintained example and drive it!
03-18-2011, 05:45 PM
#12
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Having a classic Porsche more or less requires you to be an enthusiast. You will be doing a lot of work, and if it's not something you enjoy, your going to end up selling it pretty quick. If you are married, expect your wife to harp on you about the expenses as well.
I am currently 20 years old and am in college. I own a 924 and 928, and they eat up more money than the time it takes to sort out the next problem. Owning and working on these cars has become my lifestyle, and right from the get-go with my 924, I became addicted as hell, and I don't think I will ever enjoy anything more than owning a Porsche!
Anywho, do brain bursting research before you decide. Then be prepared to sell your soul.
I am currently 20 years old and am in college. I own a 924 and 928, and they eat up more money than the time it takes to sort out the next problem. Owning and working on these cars has become my lifestyle, and right from the get-go with my 924, I became addicted as hell, and I don't think I will ever enjoy anything more than owning a Porsche!
Anywho, do brain bursting research before you decide. Then be prepared to sell your soul.
03-18-2011, 08:53 PM
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thank you all for the comments brothers, I am not so much interested in the cost if it is for a car that is unique and no longer made...I feel the S4 is that car for me, I may not get the same performance as my M3 but I will be driving a unique car you dont see everyday. This is important for me...I also want to do all the labor/maintance work myself on it. I currently due all the work on my 1098R ducati and love the challenge...
The M3 is great but they keep coming out with new ones and though I can afford it, I think its stupid to keep spending money on the latest and greatest thing, I am 32 now and can afford new GT3 if I want but I am not looking for this, I want to get my hands dirty and stylize the S4 to the way I want it... a new car there is not much I could do to it....
I have decided to get a S4 or GTS and paint it MAT black with racing rims and mod the engine/interior, change the seats for carbon fiber etc....
My purchase date is April 11... when I return to the US from traveling through South America...I want to have passion for a vehicle with a soul and not just be a yuppy in the latest and greatest thing anymore...my wife can get the new cars from now on : ) oh and sister since as of today she will inherit the M3 (not selling it anymore)...: )
Also I have no need for another car, wife has a Lexus, I have a Ducati and my sister has my M3...so I can manage if I need a backup car since they all live with me...God help me...
And for the poster who commented on my service, thank you... have been a Marine Sniper does add a odd perspective to most things in my life...you are welcome...!
The M3 is great but they keep coming out with new ones and though I can afford it, I think its stupid to keep spending money on the latest and greatest thing, I am 32 now and can afford new GT3 if I want but I am not looking for this, I want to get my hands dirty and stylize the S4 to the way I want it... a new car there is not much I could do to it....
I have decided to get a S4 or GTS and paint it MAT black with racing rims and mod the engine/interior, change the seats for carbon fiber etc....
My purchase date is April 11... when I return to the US from traveling through South America...I want to have passion for a vehicle with a soul and not just be a yuppy in the latest and greatest thing anymore...my wife can get the new cars from now on : ) oh and sister since as of today she will inherit the M3 (not selling it anymore)...: )
Also I have no need for another car, wife has a Lexus, I have a Ducati and my sister has my M3...so I can manage if I need a backup car since they all live with me...God help me...
And for the poster who commented on my service, thank you... have been a Marine Sniper does add a odd perspective to most things in my life...you are welcome...!
03-18-2011, 09:03 PM
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Perhaps was best that you posted this now .. "I have decided to get a S4 or GTS and paint it MAT black with racing rims and mod the engine/interior, change the seats for carbon fiber etc...."
and not in the first post....it would have changed a number of comments
and not in the first post....it would have changed a number of comments