3 race 928's on track at once!!!!!!! What a weekend!!!!! Great time!!
02-01-2011, 11:28 PM
#151
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Jeff
100Mph apex in 8 puts me all the way out at exit past the paint over the rumble strips to the very edge of the track. I have just enough time to get back on track before the extra pavement ends. My speedo reads a little low but I don't think I would try for much more than 100 thru there in my car. High risk to reward ratio. But i would be happy to try it in yours. Maybe we can do ride alongs next time out. How is the car get the problem sorted?
100Mph apex in 8 puts me all the way out at exit past the paint over the rumble strips to the very edge of the track. I have just enough time to get back on track before the extra pavement ends. My speedo reads a little low but I don't think I would try for much more than 100 thru there in my car. High risk to reward ratio. But i would be happy to try it in yours. Maybe we can do ride alongs next time out. How is the car get the problem sorted?
02-01-2011, 11:32 PM
#152
Rennlist Member
What car are you doing this in, a daytona prototype? (115mph at turn 8). 
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
if I had a GOOD dry, really dry...track, I could pull 115 or so out of it by taking the chance to upshift to 4th about 200yds before T8..but I would lose any time gained by the brake/shift/engage step going into T9..and staying in 3rd for T9 is a LOT smoother that way. Its a steep hill to T9, and the 8 doesnt have a boatload of available power to accelerate up it. I get about 2 seconds of 9500rpm limiter...which is NOT far from the peak powerband..as you can see in my dyno sheet.
And the faster I get headed for T8, I add more inches INSIDE the apex of 8..literally in the dirt, that I initially aim for..I accept the push I'll get and use it. It all works out until I get the faintest complaint out of the rear of the car. I can feather the gas to rotate the 8 safely quite a bit..but not once I start hearing it do so. Thats how I take T2 at warp..I go in hot and VERY too fast initially, and once it starts to push, I start to feather lift out of it, and it brings the car still at pretty much WOT, into the line where im half over the white line on the left at the big brown weed that comes OVER the edge of the track, which at OUR event was a perfect place to then let it push even more..to the exit apex. T2 and T9 are great places for momentum cars to catch larger bait with an abundance of power..because using much of it can be unsettling to them, I just keep a full head of steam and rock on.
Next event..the weed will likely be gone..but something else will be there...
Of course, Ive NEVER done this, but on a saturday night track walk, ive NEVER moved the big rock/clod of dirt/etc that was otherwise a good aiming point a few feet in some direction to change the detailed view of the blind entry over T9 for the early morning race the next day. Never...neeeever have I ever done this.
God I miss racing
God I dont miss the cost and hassle
And the faster I get headed for T8, I add more inches INSIDE the apex of 8..literally in the dirt, that I initially aim for..I accept the push I'll get and use it. It all works out until I get the faintest complaint out of the rear of the car. I can feather the gas to rotate the 8 safely quite a bit..but not once I start hearing it do so. Thats how I take T2 at warp..I go in hot and VERY too fast initially, and once it starts to push, I start to feather lift out of it, and it brings the car still at pretty much WOT, into the line where im half over the white line on the left at the big brown weed that comes OVER the edge of the track, which at OUR event was a perfect place to then let it push even more..to the exit apex. T2 and T9 are great places for momentum cars to catch larger bait with an abundance of power..because using much of it can be unsettling to them, I just keep a full head of steam and rock on.
Next event..the weed will likely be gone..but something else will be there...
Of course, Ive NEVER done this, but on a saturday night track walk, ive NEVER moved the big rock/clod of dirt/etc that was otherwise a good aiming point a few feet in some direction to change the detailed view of the blind entry over T9 for the early morning race the next day. Never...neeeever have I ever done this.
God I miss racing
God I dont miss the cost and hassle
02-01-2011, 11:38 PM
#154
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What car are you doing this in, a daytona prototype? (115mph at turn 8).
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
02-01-2011, 11:45 PM
#155
Rennlist Member
02-02-2011, 12:13 AM
#156
Rennlist Member
http://www.gofastvideo.com/video/926...Rylan-Vs-Randy
with telemtry to see how fast a 2:01 car goes through the track. main straight about 122mph, turn 8 right around 100mph.
this was the group I ran with running SCCA ITE. at the time, the S2000 was 350rwhp and a blower. later, it ran 520rwhp out of the same 2.2liter with a turbo. 1:55-6ish if I remember right.
with telemtry to see how fast a 2:01 car goes through the track. main straight about 122mph, turn 8 right around 100mph.
this was the group I ran with running SCCA ITE. at the time, the S2000 was 350rwhp and a blower. later, it ran 520rwhp out of the same 2.2liter with a turbo. 1:55-6ish if I remember right.
02-02-2011, 12:43 AM
#157
Race Director
Thread Starter
What car are you doing this in, a daytona prototype? (115mph at turn 8).
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
For example my estate speedo is fairly close...about the fastest I have ever taken T8 is maybe 105mph (when I look down at track out at WOT)...100mph at trackout is normal on R comps.....which means I can get 110+ by the brake zone going into 9..my line going into 8 is just to lift briefly turn in and back to full throttle around apex....
In this video of the Estate very early in its development on street tires Dean Thomas DID take T8 flat at WOT (never lifted)....I wouldn't try it..but dean is very skilled and saved it enroute to a lemons track record 2:14.00 flat at Thunderhill in lemons trim (190+ treadwear tires)..which hasn't been beat to date!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qptfVecjKwc
02-02-2011, 12:47 AM
#158
Burning Brakes
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I am tellin' ya... Sir Speedy is one fast dude. He's chatting with me the whole time while my eyes are trying to pick out rp's, but they're going by so fast they're worthless to me, and we passed everything in front of us. All of it. One right after the other. Whole bunch of rear-engined guys weren't pleased seemed to me. I still have the ****-eating grin on my mug.
02-02-2011, 01:43 AM
#159
Race Director
Thread Starter
finally edited a couple pics.....of course from Thursday when I drove up....wonderful SUNNY weather...that disappeared until Sunday afternoon.... :>(
02-02-2011, 02:02 AM
#160
Rennlist Member
What car are you doing this in, a daytona prototype? (115mph at turn 8).
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
If I hit that turn at 100 to 103mph, Ill run a 1:59 with the stroker or 2:01 with the holbert 5 liter on DOT slicks. first time out with no aero with the black car, i could hit it at near 102mph, and it was scary with no down force on the rear with my commuter DOT slicks (toyo ra1)
turn 8 is about 95mph for the spec miatas, and they dont lift. In the race 928s, we get to about 120 before the turn in of 8 and then its a quick brake, and on the gas again for a hold-on-to -your-life exit going up to 9, which by the way is a GREAT turn for big brakes and trust of the track. Its slightly banked, and it pays huge dividends to those who know it well, as the exit is a steep down hill straight run. the momentium cars really do much better in the turn 2 to 6 area. after that, its a HP , nerve race!
But Guar-O-Teed, 100mph easy thru T8 in the RX8. On street rubber, and probly another 200yds of speed I could build if i was back on Toyo's to get the next 3-5mph..but that was so so hard on the car back then. Ate plugs at thos RPMs in the summer, and the OEM coils didnt last long either. I have Chebby coils in there now..but still eats up $80 in spark plugs after hard use pretty quick.
Im positive, im faster in T8 in the rx8, than I was in the Z06..just never trusted it all the way on the stock cheap suspension bushings..wobbled a bit.
I dont think that ive ever..fully figured out T9..theres SO much speed there, and it seems so hard to hit right and not feel you left something in it to me..dunno why.
02-02-2011, 02:17 AM
#162
Rennlist Member
This is about right....I'm thinking Jeff means thats his top speed prior to the brake zone into 9?
For example my estate speedo is fairly close...about the fastest I have ever taken T8 is maybe 105mph (when I look down at track out at WOT)...100mph at trackout is normal on R comps.....which means I can get 110+ by the brake zone going into 9..my line going into 8 is just to lift briefly turn in and back to full throttle around apex....
In this video of the Estate very early in its development on street tires Dean Thomas DID take T8 flat at WOT (never lifted)....I wouldn't try it..but dean is very skilled and saved it enroute to a lemons track record 2:14.00 flat at Thunderhill in lemons trim (190+ treadwear tires)..which hasn't been beat to date!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qptfVecjKwc
For example my estate speedo is fairly close...about the fastest I have ever taken T8 is maybe 105mph (when I look down at track out at WOT)...100mph at trackout is normal on R comps.....which means I can get 110+ by the brake zone going into 9..my line going into 8 is just to lift briefly turn in and back to full throttle around apex....
In this video of the Estate very early in its development on street tires Dean Thomas DID take T8 flat at WOT (never lifted)....I wouldn't try it..but dean is very skilled and saved it enroute to a lemons track record 2:14.00 flat at Thunderhill in lemons trim (190+ treadwear tires)..which hasn't been beat to date!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qptfVecjKwc
Nah..Im at the same speed before braking for 9, as I am turning into 8. Third gear, on the limiter, 9800RPM.
Takes me about 1/3 to 1/2 second to shift gears up, at least that down...I dont force it, and theres more distance taken to shift up and down than its worth from 8 to 9, and on R-DOTs, I do have time/space to upshift to 4th for 8.
2:14 is a wet track Spec Miata pace..and the 8 is quicker than a SM...and a fast SM is..2:07s??
Spec 944 is...2:12s I think...Id have to look it up, but ive put 1000s of cars into grid lookin at lap times.
02-02-2011, 02:18 AM
#163
Rennlist Member
Jeff
100Mph apex in 8 puts me all the way out at exit past the paint over the rumble strips to the very edge of the track. I have just enough time to get back on track before the extra pavement ends. My speedo reads a little low but I don't think I would try for much more than 100 thru there in my car. High risk to reward ratio. But i would be happy to try it in yours. Maybe we can do ride alongs next time out. How is the car get the problem sorted?
100Mph apex in 8 puts me all the way out at exit past the paint over the rumble strips to the very edge of the track. I have just enough time to get back on track before the extra pavement ends. My speedo reads a little low but I don't think I would try for much more than 100 thru there in my car. High risk to reward ratio. But i would be happy to try it in yours. Maybe we can do ride alongs next time out. How is the car get the problem sorted?
After full cool down, ran fine..but we still cleared the code that the shop scanner said "didnt exist".
*shrug*
02-02-2011, 02:47 AM
#164
Rennlist Member
you aint going to run 207 in your 8, even with race rubber.
just curious, go do the math for 9800rpm and 3rd gear and tell me your time, not what is on the speedo. usually, there is a 5mph difference between indicated and actual.
put it this way, you guys were running about 15 seconds slower than what my car does out there, and i would be able to run around you and the estate in any turn, and the speeds Im seeing are not much over 100mph.
if you are hitting redline at the apex of 8, are you going slower before hand? it doesnt add up. the only cars that dont lift through 8 are the ones that cant go faster than 100mph before the turn. I was htting 7000rpm down the main straight in the stockish lemons RX7, and 5300rpm at the apex of 8 in 4th gear. (ill have to look up the specs to see how fast that is)
a RX8, in street shape is T2 or maybe T3 class in SCCA . I dont think they run much faster than 2:10.
You can see from the video what most of the ITE folks are running around turn 8 at. Im sure there are some real accurate telemetry plots. In fact, i have the telemetry plot from Kent jordans 440rwhp Evo when he was running about a second faster than I am now on 4 x 305 hoosiers.
as a side note to what you think you could do if...... around turn 8. I was thinking the same thing, as I do for turn 6 at laguna . Its just not possible to go much faster, no matter who the driver is. the G limits are reached for set up, weight and ride height. 10mph would put most of those turns at over 2Gs.
you car, on your best day, would be near 1g on street tires and that is at the very top of all top performance cars on street tires in the world.
just curious, go do the math for 9800rpm and 3rd gear and tell me your time, not what is on the speedo. usually, there is a 5mph difference between indicated and actual.
put it this way, you guys were running about 15 seconds slower than what my car does out there, and i would be able to run around you and the estate in any turn, and the speeds Im seeing are not much over 100mph.
if you are hitting redline at the apex of 8, are you going slower before hand? it doesnt add up. the only cars that dont lift through 8 are the ones that cant go faster than 100mph before the turn. I was htting 7000rpm down the main straight in the stockish lemons RX7, and 5300rpm at the apex of 8 in 4th gear. (ill have to look up the specs to see how fast that is)
a RX8, in street shape is T2 or maybe T3 class in SCCA . I dont think they run much faster than 2:10.
You can see from the video what most of the ITE folks are running around turn 8 at. Im sure there are some real accurate telemetry plots. In fact, i have the telemetry plot from Kent jordans 440rwhp Evo when he was running about a second faster than I am now on 4 x 305 hoosiers.
as a side note to what you think you could do if...... around turn 8. I was thinking the same thing, as I do for turn 6 at laguna . Its just not possible to go much faster, no matter who the driver is. the G limits are reached for set up, weight and ride height. 10mph would put most of those turns at over 2Gs.
you car, on your best day, would be near 1g on street tires and that is at the very top of all top performance cars on street tires in the world.
Nah..Im at the same speed before braking for 9, as I am turning into 8. Third gear, on the limiter, 9800RPM.
Takes me about 1/3 to 1/2 second to shift gears up, at least that down...I dont force it, and theres more distance taken to shift up and down than its worth from 8 to 9, and on R-DOTs, I do have time/space to upshift to 4th for 8.
2:14 is a wet track Spec Miata pace..and the 8 is quicker than a SM...and a fast SM is..2:07s??
Spec 944 is...2:12s I think...Id have to look it up, but ive put 1000s of cars into grid lookin at lap times.
Takes me about 1/3 to 1/2 second to shift gears up, at least that down...I dont force it, and theres more distance taken to shift up and down than its worth from 8 to 9, and on R-DOTs, I do have time/space to upshift to 4th for 8.
2:14 is a wet track Spec Miata pace..and the 8 is quicker than a SM...and a fast SM is..2:07s??
Spec 944 is...2:12s I think...Id have to look it up, but ive put 1000s of cars into grid lookin at lap times.