Blown headgasket, time to get dirty
12-08-2010, 08:58 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
I pulled the motor in my '87. It isn't as bad as you might think, and you get access at EVERYTHING.
So plan on fixing/updating/tweaking everything while you've got it on the floor.
So plan on fixing/updating/tweaking everything while you've got it on the floor.
12-08-2010, 10:17 PM
#17
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Pull the engine. Easy. Buy a complete gasket kid and reseal everything. Buy a case or two of Brakeclean, and make the engine really shine. No future mess to deal with after that.
Earn man-points too....cause you ain't a man if you haven't pulled an engine.
Rich
Earn man-points too....cause you ain't a man if you haven't pulled an engine.
Rich
12-08-2010, 10:57 PM
#18
Former Sponsor
On an '83, the cam carriers and heads come off with the engine in the car. It is very time consuming and a pain in the butt to get the cam carriers off and back on...the allen headed bolts are tough to get to and tough to tighten equally. The rest is fairly straight forward.
We do it both ways, in the shop...engine in and engine out....depending on what our mood is and what we think we will "see" when we get into the project. A blown head gasket on a 928 is fairly rare. If your car really has 80,000 miles on it, that means that it has sat for relatively long periods of time...at some point in its life. That sometimes means that the coolant didn't get changed every two years, as needed and that the coolant turned acidic. This can damage the head gaskets, as well as damage the block and the heads. I bought an '83 that had about this very mileage, for my son, that had blown head gaskets. Since I kind of figured that there would be damage from the acidic coolant attacking the aluminum, I pulled the engine. Sure enough, the block and the heads were junk and this engine was trash. Turned out to be a good move...I didn't waste a bunch of time pulling the heads in the car, only to find out that the engine needed to come out, anyway.
However, taking the engine out is an entire new level of complexity...there are just that many more things that you need to deal with. Many cars that get the engines removed just never get re-assembled. People loose interest in spending that amount of time and decide it is too hard, dealing with all the pieces. It can be overwhelming!
Removing the heads, in the car, requires serious "leaning" over the fenders" time...but it is a "controlled job" that you can see progress and can see the "end". Tougher to see the "end" with the engine out.
You need to weigh everything and decide on your mechanical skills and decide what will work best, for you.
We do it both ways, in the shop...engine in and engine out....depending on what our mood is and what we think we will "see" when we get into the project. A blown head gasket on a 928 is fairly rare. If your car really has 80,000 miles on it, that means that it has sat for relatively long periods of time...at some point in its life. That sometimes means that the coolant didn't get changed every two years, as needed and that the coolant turned acidic. This can damage the head gaskets, as well as damage the block and the heads. I bought an '83 that had about this very mileage, for my son, that had blown head gaskets. Since I kind of figured that there would be damage from the acidic coolant attacking the aluminum, I pulled the engine. Sure enough, the block and the heads were junk and this engine was trash. Turned out to be a good move...I didn't waste a bunch of time pulling the heads in the car, only to find out that the engine needed to come out, anyway.
However, taking the engine out is an entire new level of complexity...there are just that many more things that you need to deal with. Many cars that get the engines removed just never get re-assembled. People loose interest in spending that amount of time and decide it is too hard, dealing with all the pieces. It can be overwhelming!
Removing the heads, in the car, requires serious "leaning" over the fenders" time...but it is a "controlled job" that you can see progress and can see the "end". Tougher to see the "end" with the engine out.
You need to weigh everything and decide on your mechanical skills and decide what will work best, for you.
12-08-2010, 11:26 PM
#19
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On an '83, the cam carriers and heads come off with the engine in the car. It is very time consuming and a pain in the butt to get the cam carriers off and back on...the allen headed bolts are tough to get to and tough to tighten equally. The rest is fairly straight forward.
We do it both ways, in the shop...engine in and engine out....depending on what our mood is and what we think we will "see" when we get into the project. A blown head gasket on a 928 is fairly rare. If your car really has 80,000 miles on it, that means that it has sat for relatively long periods of time...at some point in its life. That sometimes means that the coolant didn't get changed every two years, as needed and that the coolant turned acidic. This can damage the head gaskets, as well as damage the block and the heads. I bought an '83 that had about this very mileage, for my son, that had blown head gaskets. Since I kind of figured that there would be damage from the acidic coolant attacking the aluminum, I pulled the engine. Sure enough, the block and the heads were junk and this engine was trash. Turned out to be a good move...I didn't waste a bunch of time pulling the heads in the car, only to find out that the engine needed to come out, anyway.
However, taking the engine out is an entire new level of complexity...there are just that many more things that you need to deal with. Many cars that get the engines removed just never get re-assembled. People loose interest in spending that amount of time and decide it is too hard, dealing with all the pieces. It can be overwhelming!
Removing the heads, in the car, requires serious "leaning" over the fenders" time...but it is a "controlled job" that you can see progress and can see the "end". Tougher to see the "end" with the engine out.
You need to weigh everything and decide on your mechanical skills and decide what will work best, for you.
We do it both ways, in the shop...engine in and engine out....depending on what our mood is and what we think we will "see" when we get into the project. A blown head gasket on a 928 is fairly rare. If your car really has 80,000 miles on it, that means that it has sat for relatively long periods of time...at some point in its life. That sometimes means that the coolant didn't get changed every two years, as needed and that the coolant turned acidic. This can damage the head gaskets, as well as damage the block and the heads. I bought an '83 that had about this very mileage, for my son, that had blown head gaskets. Since I kind of figured that there would be damage from the acidic coolant attacking the aluminum, I pulled the engine. Sure enough, the block and the heads were junk and this engine was trash. Turned out to be a good move...I didn't waste a bunch of time pulling the heads in the car, only to find out that the engine needed to come out, anyway.
However, taking the engine out is an entire new level of complexity...there are just that many more things that you need to deal with. Many cars that get the engines removed just never get re-assembled. People loose interest in spending that amount of time and decide it is too hard, dealing with all the pieces. It can be overwhelming!
Removing the heads, in the car, requires serious "leaning" over the fenders" time...but it is a "controlled job" that you can see progress and can see the "end". Tougher to see the "end" with the engine out.
You need to weigh everything and decide on your mechanical skills and decide what will work best, for you.
12-09-2010, 02:26 AM
#21
Former Sponsor
If you need an idea of what ruined blocks, from acidic coolant, look like or you want to get an idea of how involved pulling the engine is, I did a thread about my son's '83 that we redid last summer. Keep in mind that this was a vehicle with very similar mileage to your own. It was towed into my shop, not running. We discovered that it had coolant in several cylinders. The customer didn't want to mess with it, any longer. Instead of scraping it, we decided to buy it and fix it.
We removed the engine and took the heads off. The block was junk, the heads were eaten up, and it had a couple of bent rods from being cranked over with water in the cylinders. This required us finding another engine...which we found at 928 International. Finding a good 4.7 liter is a tough road! We took apart several, before we found one that had a good block and good heads. They all had the same problems...the coolant had attacked the block and heads.
I don't know how to give you a link to it, but you should be able to find it....
Two Valve (Pre '85) Update/Freshen.
We removed the engine and took the heads off. The block was junk, the heads were eaten up, and it had a couple of bent rods from being cranked over with water in the cylinders. This required us finding another engine...which we found at 928 International. Finding a good 4.7 liter is a tough road! We took apart several, before we found one that had a good block and good heads. They all had the same problems...the coolant had attacked the block and heads.
I don't know how to give you a link to it, but you should be able to find it....
Two Valve (Pre '85) Update/Freshen.
12-09-2010, 02:40 AM
#22
Archive Gatekeeper
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12-09-2010, 10:02 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
So is your engine leaking oil out the head gasket? Or is coolant coming out as well? My '84 has an oil leak somewhere in that area (above oil filter), but there are plenty of places that can leak on the driver side, just hope it's not the head gasket...
12-09-2010, 11:55 AM
#24
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Yes there is. I've pulled the heads on my '83 with the engine in the. No problem what so ever. When the cam towers are off, there is plenty of room for the heads to clear the studs. But if you decided to pull the engine, do youself a favor and loosen the crank bolt while the engine is in the car.
12-09-2010, 12:58 PM
#25
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Yes there is. I've pulled the heads on my '83 with the engine in the. No problem what so ever. When the cam towers are off, there is plenty of room for the heads to clear the studs. But if you decided to pull the engine, do youself a favor and loosen the crank bolt while the engine is in the car.
12-09-2010, 01:44 PM
#27
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COOL!!! Excellent stuff!! The more I read, the more excited i'm getting. This shopuld be fun. (I hope) I'm sure i'll learn a few new cuss words in the process, but who can't use a few new cuss words. At this point, I think I am still leaning towards taking the engine out. If for no other reason than...
( I love that, 
) But we'll see. This is a project that will have to get done. It's my daily driver and the only one I own.
It's just oil. I can see it coming out right where the head meets the block. And you all are right. It's not blown, just detereorated. An old car that sat to long, and then got driven to much after.
You guys are awesome!! Thanks. I got good tools, a great camera for lots of pix. Can't wait to get started.
Earn man-points too....cause you ain't a man if you haven't pulled an engine.
) But we'll see. This is a project that will have to get done. It's my daily driver and the only one I own.
So is your engine leaking oil out the head gasket? Or is coolant coming out as well? My '84 has an oil leak somewhere in that area (above oil filter), but there are plenty of places that can leak on the driver side, just hope it's not the head gasket...
You guys are awesome!! Thanks. I got good tools, a great camera for lots of pix. Can't wait to get started.
12-09-2010, 01:44 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
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12-10-2010, 01:52 PM
#29
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I had an oil leak from the front/driver side area of the engine ever since I got the car. Did a TB/WP service including replacing cam tower gaskets, all cam seals, o-rings, etc, distributor seal, FMS, oil pump o ring, and still have a leak in that area. It has gotten worse recently and leaves a few spots of oil in the driveway, and the entire area of the block around the oil filter and oil ports is soaked. What are the chances I have a leak similar to Emickelsen? Or should I tear it apart again and make sure I didn't mess something up?
12-12-2010, 08:55 PM
#30
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Day 1, Finally got under way. Got my oakie fender protectors in place. Got most of the front end removed, along with about 15 lbs of dirt and grease. Tomorrow i'm going to start on the top. Pull the spider, fuel injector rails, and order some parts. 928 International on speed dial. The third picture (sorry, a real bad one) is the belt tensionor. It looks like it had a plastic cover on it at one time that is now gone. Is it supposed to have some kind of boot over it or something?