User 4221

Here are some words of wisdom a former sales manager taught me when I was green and starting out

"The customer is not always right, but the customer is still the customer"

Something for all business owners and sales people to think about....... BTW, Roger understands this very well.

Dan87951

Glen, What are you getting at? Haven't my videos proven beyond a reasonable doubt that these things are defective?? Lets put you in my shoes and see show you like spending days changing out control arms...

I don't see how any reasonable man can possibly see I'm in the wrong here!!

All I'm asking for is a full refund, nothing more nothing less! Seems pretty simple to me...

SeanR

Man, the Tags on this thread are enough. 928, bad, motorsports, service. Pops up quick on the google too.

bcdavis, tell us please, where is Devek now?

Carl Fausett

Not at all. The videos are inconclusive. I cannot tell if the suspension is loaded or unloaded, if the wheel bearings are adjusted correctly, if the ball joint has worked loose, if the a-arm is greased, if the a-arm is installed correctly, or if the a-arm was damaged in transit from me to you.

Carl Fausett

I'm glad this came forward.

Our return policy is published http://www.928motorsports.com/policies.php
and consistent with others in the automotive aftermarket industry.

If you purchase items from us and, upon your inspection but before you install them, you decide you dont like the part(s), you may return them for a full refund. I have been posting this on nearly every eBay ad for years.
Here is an example of that: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...%3AMESELX%3AIT

If you install them - then we progress to the limited warranty on the part. If defective, we will repair or replace them at our option.

I will not treat you "special" because you are a forum member (I assume all car nuts are a memeber of one forum or another these days). I apply the same policy regardless.

In this case I have also offered a full store credit and a cash refund less a 15% restocking fee.

Landseer

Aside from the OP issue, the reference says a complete refund is not offered if a defect is not apparent until after a part is installed.

In commerce, that's called engineering logic.

In the interpretation of warranty hierarchy, there could be a conflict.

The counterlogic is that a defective part ( if it were defective ) could not be legitimately restocked.

Dan87951

Carl, We already know your creditability don't we? Let's recap..

1. You claimed the first control arm I sent back didn't need repair at all and nothing was wrong with it. You claimed you greased it and that was it. However, the invoice I got back from you stated "REPAIR". Not only that the video plainly shows the difference in quality between the 2 control arms before they were sent back to you. One works the other doesn't. Pretty cut and dry. The video is pretty damaging to your case..

2. You claimed in an email I threaten to "smear" your name on rennlist and that you don't "respond well to threats". Carl.. we are STILL WAITING FOR YOU to POST THAT EMAIL. Where is it? I have been nothing but professional throughout this ordeal even though it’s been like talking to a wall and you know it!

3. Lastly, you insult my intelligence by claiming that I don't know how to diagnose a bad control arm when I can plainly feel that the rear pivot bushing slopping around back there. Not only that the video proves the top of the wheel rocking in and out of camber. I have told you where the problem is and you refuse to believe it. Business tip for you Carl: When you sell things via mail order there will be some trust involve on the buyers part when it comes to diagnostics otherwise it turns into this...

We are obviously not going to come to an agreement. You are the owner and continue to hide behind your store policy when you know your in the wrong. As stated before I do not want to waste more time on these control arms. I have already wasted enough time and want to drive my car this year. I want a full refund, that simple.

Let this thread be a valuable lesson for anyone thinking of purchasing from 928 Motorsports!!

928er

the challenge is that according to your "policy" is that the customer is stuck if you send them a defective product. They shouldn't be out money because they were sent a defective product. Sending them a defective product and then charging them a 15% restocking fee is giving your customer a black eye..... they are out shipping as well as 15% and all they tried to do is be your customer.

At some point any company has to look at individual customer situations and make calls that are OUTSIDE their normal policies.

Is all of the negative advertising worth the cost of shipping and the 15%? I bet it is going to cost you 100 times that cost in lost revenue... if the customer has had multiple issues with a single parts order and out of frustration they request a full refund, I would say the smart business step is to give it to them.

I think that as a vendor sometimes its easy to forget the customer's perspective....

BC

I'm thinking "Low self-monitor" here.

http://www.suite101.com/content/thei...matters-a21172

Carl, you are being advised in several different ways that you are handling this wrong. I am relatively sure the only thing that is keeping you from doing something differently is your EGO. I think alot people here have been quite patient over the years with your obvious lack of any customer service understanding.

MOST of the people here are not in sales and marketing. They are simply customers, so your position, which usually resembles "the customer is never right, and I will blame them for any issues" is going to clash with public perception, which is "The customer is always right, especially when its expensive"

What seems to be a complete lack of understanding, on your part, of how a company exists online is very peculiar.

I'll end here, but to be clear, I have no interest in your response being to restate your position. Everyone already sees it clearly.

Cosmo Kramer

All this bad press that could have been avoided for $100... glad I don't run my business this way!

Guy he pissed off has two 928's and a 944. If he was treated well could have got that $100 back in a heartbeat with future sales.

Jadz928

I have only one policy I follow, and that's my consumer policy... which basically states "I will not get screwed over by business people who hide behind their policy.

My policy can kick your policies a$$, all day long.

I cannot tell you how sick I get by policies and business practices that are based on a "screw the consumer" mentality.
I mean, really... why bite off the hand that feeds?

Carl Fausett

Chris, can you tell me where you see that? That doesn't sound right.

Carl Fausett

I agree. And I went outside our policy and offered a full in-store credit, and later, a full refund less the restocking fee.

And this is without knowing that the part is defective at all or not. It is reasonable for the merchent to ask to inspect the part that is claimed to be defective by the customer.

Dan87951

Carl,

I think he is referring to this "Parts may not be returned for refund if they have been installed or used in any way."

How is one to going know they are defective, since they can't be tested until they are installed ie control arms..

Dan

Lizard928

If you actually read what he wrote, and understood it. Then you would not say that you agree. As your actions, and even your following statements completely contradict what Sterling has said.

As well, why not offer him a set of your rebuild factory upper a-arms at the same price as 928 intl ($48 less for the pair), and defuse the situation that way.

Dan,
You state that you can physically feel the rear inner joint moving with slop. I think that it would satisfy all our curiosity if you could please take a short video showing this movement. I have seen this same movement you speak of, but I had the arms in the car and had >10k km on them. They were replaced under warranty.
However if you document that play on video. There will be ZERO doubt in everyones mind that is where the movement is coming from. At that point, Carl will have undeniable proof that the arm is defective. And may be willing to correct the issue the way that most of us feel should be corrected.

bcdavis,
There are many of us who continue to improve and develop items for the 928. However prior to selling the items as a mass "kit" or a bolt in replacement, they need to be tested. There also needs to be a higher level of quality control on the parts that you do not make yourself. As an example, Carl has these arms made for him. He should clamp it in a vice and ensure proper movement of the arms. And that there is no free play.
If the items are not individually checked, then one cannot sell them as a full kit. They can only sell them as parts, and state that they have not been fully tested.

As an example, a coil over kit. I purchased it with 1000/500 spring rate. It was advertised as a "kit" install and go. Lets just say that after a long time of trying to work with the supplier and being offered zero satisfaction, and in my humble opinion garbage fixes. I gave up and fixed it myself. The issue was that I could not get the car even down to factory ride height. Think 2.5" too high on the lowest setting. Much to someone's dismay, Norbert posted on a mailing list that he had this problem with this same "kit" but with the 800# front springs. The supplier of "kit" was on that list and posted that he had never had any issues with this kit, and this was the first that he had heard of this. I responded with my own experiences and relayed that I had tried to work with the supplier to correct the problem, but was only offered haywire BS fixes.
Funny enough the tune changed quickly.

Devek actually had a much better track record for items fitting. What caused their demise was not shipping parts that were paid for.

Also if anyone is interested in threaded sleeves for the Koni shock, they should check out coleman racing products......