RKD in OKC

Goodness Gracious. I was not talking about how the 928 actually handles. I am talking about the perception of the typical 911 driver.

Your dealer story of the 928 IS very typical of how poorly the 928 was treated even by the dealers. The "only service them to keep our rich customers happy" sounds like they didn't even bother to have a mechanic Porsche trained to work on the 928. Our local dealership, and the local Porsche shop for that matter, both have well trained 928 mechanics and do not moan and/or complain about someone bringing in a 928. And it has yet to take longer than the book times on the work I've had done at either.

The gest of the Mark Davis narrative is not that the 928 was easier to reach the limits. It was that the limits of the 928 are deceiving. You think you are going as fast as you can, but the 928 has more. So much so that it took their professional drivers many tries to go fast enough to actually push the 928s limits for their photo session. And that the typical 911 driver fearing simple oversteer is not going to push the 928 near it's limits, then claim the car is slow and heavy reinforcing their commitment to the 911 mystique.

I also did NOT say the 911 was easier to drive. I said that it was the perception that the 911 was easier for a non-professional to get closer to it's limits than other cars. And that there had been magazine tests backing up that perception.

Again, Geeze. VALUE IS ABOUT PERCEPTION and has nothing to do with the actual facts. Fact is, you have to be a damn good driver in a current model GT2, GT3, or 997 Turbo with over 400 hp or stripped down hopped up track 911 to beat me in my heavy *** luxury laden 350 hp GTS at our autocross events.

I did what I TOUGHT was a good job of explaining what has driven the PERCEPTION of the 928 being too expensive and slow which as in turn driven it's lack of resale value compared to the 911. —Evidentially Failed

EspritS4s

Ok, Ok, got ya. 911 drivers value the adrenaline pumping and life threatening tendency of the older 911s to swap ends over the boring competency of the 928.

RKD in OKC

You got it!

tv

I found this while looking for that service managers comment, cool pictures and story on that car we have seen before;


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4577969

tv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2sy6qbPc4c

86 951 Driver

I'm not 928 expert by any means, but I think 928's have hit their rock bottom for pricing and they may have a few years ago. They are really cool cars that are perfect for GT. I have always been a fan of the watercooled cars. They are great cars and offer great car for the money. A 928 would be a nice car to own, but a little much for me now.

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Porsche factory 0-60 times for some models in the discussion;

1987 928 S4 5.7
1987 944 8.3
1987 944S 7.7
1987 944 turbo 6.1


944 Turbo S "a tick over" 5.5 (limited edition)
928 GT 5.2

hacker-pschorr

BINGO!!

Which is why a DeLorean is worth more than 99% of any 928. Easily one of the biggest POS to ever come out of the auto industry.

All 1989 944 Turbo's had the same performance as the 88 S model.

For very little money you can easily pump that hp figure north of 300 from any 944T.

axis of evil

My first Porsche was a 4 year old 356C super 90 speedster, I would rate it as one of the worst cars I have EVER owned .
IT looked like a VW something big had sat on,ugly as a sackfull of buttholes, and these days, there are ride-on lawnmowers that could out preform it.
Sold it to a guy that thought it was a performance car, he tried to beat a train to a level crossing, train 1, Porsche nil.
Look at the prices they bring (the ones that have not tried to mate with a train)

tv

I like the 944, like it's ext. look and it's abilities, always have, especially the later ones.

But in a performance comparison to the 928, it was always a step behind, designed to be. In 89 the GT still beat it. The point is the 928 always had a faster version available according to factory published numbers. And as the speed increased the 928 would do even better.

If anything this discussion shows how Porsche let things slide with the GTS. And even though I am using factory numbers, they are way conservative on my 928.

EspritS4s

It seems that way to me also. Have the values really changed much in the last 3-4 years especially if you consider that we've been in a recession?

hacker-pschorr

I still own a 944S, you don't have to tell me what great cars they are. I was simply filling in the blanks.

Yes stock for stock the 951 was a step behind the 928. The big difference is for the price difference the 951 can be made to out perform a stock 928. Yea yea, you'll come back with XYZ mods you can do to the 928....at this point it comes down to who has the bigger pocket book

Did the Porsche factory short change the 928 when it comes to performance? You bet, they also neutered the 944.

James Bailey

It is real hard to go below nothing...so yes they have stabilized ! 928s are often expensive to fix if you fix everthing and pay someone to do it. I have seen repair receipts on ONE car that one owner totaled about $60,000 for a STOCK 1979...... One need only look at Greg Brown's early car "rebuild" to get an idea of what many of these cars need.

EspritS4s

Jim,
That might be a little harsh. A '87 928 is still likely to be worth more than most cars from then in similar condition. True, they've also fallen farther than most, but It costs more to buy a runner S4 than say a Buick from the same era (I know it'll cost more to keep it running also).
As for restoration costs, what does that have to do with what they sell for or their depreciation rate going forward? I know that contributed to them falling so far, but I would guess that this damage is done.
Finally, I don't think that Greg and his son's resto should be used as a baseline for comparison for most buyers. He's a different class of owner.

RKD in OKC

Go drive a stock 89 944 Turbo from 0-60 and then drive a 89 928 S4 or heck any other 928 for that matter from 0-60 and you will understand.

When I bought my 90 GT from Jarrod Wise I drove up to look at the car with my 88 944 Turbo S. He made comments on how the 90 GT was faster than the 944 Turbo so I let him drive my 944 Turbo while I test drove the 90 GT. When we both got back to his house he said the 944 Turbo was faster. He said there was a place he did runs to see how fast he could accelerate and the 944 Turbo beat the 90 GT.

I had both the 88 944 Turbo S and the 90GT for a while. 3 times I took both the 944 and the 928 to our local PCA autocross that is at a 1.2 mile track not a parking lot. Those three events I got FTD in the 944 Turbo and Second fastest time in the 90GT with the 944 Turbo being from 1 to 2 seconds faster than the 90GT.

So, quote all the numbers from books and magazines all you want, there is a big difference between bench racing and sitting behind the wheel.

Interesting enough my Stock Boxster S had a factory 0-60 very close to the 90GT and 944 Turbo S. It felt faster than the 90GT, but slower than the 944 Turbo 0-60, however it felt like a dog above 60 and was down right scary above 120. Above 120 the 944 Turbo felt like you were riding in a single engine plane, the 90GT felt like you were in a jet.