If you guys think the 928 trash talk is bad, check what the word on the street is for the 348.
All the supposed people with the "in" with Ferrari say the car was a mistake.
I am happy they made the mistake.
Not to mention everyone on the net believes everything they read

I am happy with both

 

Well I'm not sure I can add much to this perspective but I have a 83 928 sitting beside a 77 911, both on stands and both slowly coming apart and back together. The air cooled world IS interesting and I especially like how there is a good group of pelican guys with a balance of budget mindedness and tech savvy, but even after all of this work, I haven't really got a great respect for the 911. The weight balance of the overall car seems really bad and there's just really no getting around that. I do like the iconic form and the rest of the car seems pretty simple (another plus) but I suspect that this will be my only 911.
The thing that appeals to me about 928 is that was Porsche's all-out effort for comfort speed and power - I mean damn - aluminum fenders. Bruce

 

Having recently driven an air cooled 911 I really do not see what the fuss is about. I admit they are response and they feel light but the car felt like a beefed up beetle. I've heard the 993 was really a complete departure from the earlier 911's and it really is a nice car but I haven't driven one so I can't confirm. The 928 feels so much more modern and unless you're at the track it does everything the 911 will do but with more comfort. Possibly the only advantage of the 911 (and this could be a big one) is driver involvement.

 

I've driven an '86 RUF conversion 930 turbo. When the booster kicked in, it was the closest I believe I'll ever have to a real rocket launch. Then when I hit he curves, it was the closest I'll be to actually crapping myself.
Very simple car and feather weight. Having said that, I'm not sure a plain vanilla 911 would do much for me. I am perplexed about the disparity in values of the 911 vs. the 928.

 

A 993 is next on my list of ownership The 928 will never be sold!

'89 S4 GP White/Black
'76 912e Silver/Black

 

Most people buy cars for how they LOOK driving it ! In other words all they care about is what OTHER people think ! It has little to do with how the car actually works just that they can be SEEN driving it. Cars are desirable when the majority of the people THINK it is desirable and the vast majority form those opinions with out ever owning one, driving one, riding in one, seeing one in person......... Fact is if you put your Porsche key chain on the bar.....the hottie next to you sees a 911 in her mind

 

Desirability/collectability are driven by so many factors, but I think emotion is the most influential, at least as it applies to cars.

I look at it this way, the same way I look at muscle cars. We are talking big bucks, even today after corrections, for muscle cars that looked pretty cool (some at least), sounded really good, went fast and sounded better, but couldn't turn, couldn't STOP, vinyl and pot metal everywhere (oh, and don't forget plastic trim pieces but with coating that looked like chrome before pealing off), suspension from the 50's, and weighed tons. But for the last 10 years or so muscle cars have defied gravity with their prices, at least in my book.

Think about the cool factor of 911s. I mean, Steve McQueen drove them! I think that trumps a juvenile Tom Cruise by a factor of 100. McQueen was not only cool, but an acknowledged racer and counter culture icon. How many of us know/heard about Porsche's race exploits in 911 derivatives for decades? Even if just perceived, each 911 road car holds a piece of that racing pedigree in their owner's psyche.

With the exception of Mark Anderson (years after 928's were out of production), who ever saw a race bred 928, regardless of how capable they are? To be frank, when I was in college at UCI (very near Newport beach, ca and lots of money), the joke was when you saw a 928 chances were good that it was driven by a dentists/doctors wife. What a waste of equipment, is what we would think when 90% of the time we were right!

Lastly, 911's are real sports cars. GT's like the 928 just don't stir those juices like a light, nimble, simple sports car does.

When I think about it in terms of what is cost to make, the truly unique design, the way it does so many things so well, I am mystified as to why everyone just doesn't beat down the doors for an iconic 928. But when I apply the thinking above, it makes perfect sense to me.

Like you guys, I know plenty of knowledgeable car guys. Almost invariably when they see me, they admire the hell out of my 928 and can even recite some of its lore (first passive rear wheel steering, only sports car ever to achieve Car of the Year, etc). Many of these same people either own or want to own a 911! So, in a nutshell, there you go. And prices will follow.

 

Okay so here goes...

First off the 928 was a luxury touring car that was EXPENSIVE.

When the 928 was introduced the 911 had a following due to it's unique handling and race winning reputation. The rear engine form factor, no matter how VW Beetle like, was faster and more importantly easier to drive at the limits than any other car available. Because of the difference in cost and form factor the racing 911 drivers did not want to leave their already well developed platform. Because the 928 took more skill to drive at the limits drivers looked for excuses like "the 928 is too heavy" to make up for their deficiency instead of learning the car. This quickly lead to the 928 not being raced with the $$$ the 911 was and so it did not get a race winning reputation like the 911 enjoyed.

The 928 was also introduced at a time when manufacturing cost and the cost to meet emissions and safety standards increased the cost of producing a new model. Already the top of the line luxury model the 928 got the reputation of being expensive to maintain even though it wasn't really any worse than any other new car model. Part of this reputation was an exaggeration of the 911 die hards trying to justify their choice to stick with the 911 form factor.

The V8 in the 928 while being it's attraction also discouraged those looking for a thrill car. A 944 Turbo that cost half as much, had the same 0-60 time but felt faster due to the turbo boost.

That's why the 928 did not gain the popularity that brings higher resale.

 

This dentist put a 930 in its place. ( posted here before by one of our brits)

 

Tony Lapine says No to the 1st paragraph

A couple of former Service managers and history says No to the 2nd paragraph (Porsche was a small company with service techs used to working on rear engined 911's, they were not prepared or staffed to deal with the 928)

and the 3rd is just wrong

 

See how the well the ill gotten reputation has ingrained itself!!!

First Paragraph - I am going on what I hear from 911 drivers after they get beaten by my 928 GTs. Don't know what a Tony Lapine is. One or two cars being raced is NOT very many compared to just how many 911s are out there competing. I don't know how many magazine articles I've read as I was growing up comparing the 911 to other cars. The overall consensus was that if you put a professional driver in a car and compared their times to your typical owner/driver in the same car the times of the typical driver would be closer to the professional driver's time in a 911. There is also a video of Mark Davis, Editor of Car and Driver at the time, where he talks about the handling of the 928 and how it took their professional drivers 28 tries to go fast enough to get the 928 to slide around a corner at the limits for their video. Hence the argument that the 911 is easier to drive closer to the limits.

Second paragraph - Local non-dealer shops here in OKC that maintain all Porsche models will tell you from their records the 944 Turbos cost the most to maintain, other models are about even. These are out-of-warranty cars. In warranty cars that dealer "service managers" see you don't care about the cost of maintenance because if it breaks, it's covered by warranty. Your service manager friends are part of the machine man, keep that 911 culture alive.

Third Paragraph - I've owned 2 each 944 turbo and 928, it is NOT wrong. If you think the 928 is faster, dream on. What you feel when accelerating is the torque curve. The pride of the 928 is it's relatively flat torque curve. The turbo torque curve increases more with rpm due to boost. Once you get the 928 hooked up in a gear it's rate of acceleration is the same until the next shift ie. flat torque curve. Because of the boost the rate of acceleration once in gear in a 944 Turbo increases making it feel like you are accelerating faster, it unexpectedly pushes you harder into the back of the seat as rpms increase. Makes the seat of the pants dyno say 944 Turbo accelerates faster. The 0-60 of a 89 944 Turbo and an 89 928 S4, 5.5 seconds.

 

The older the 911 the more "difficult" it was to drive. For decades 911's were criticized for being rear engined and having at the limit severe oversteer. I totally disagree that 911's were easier to drive than a 928. The first time I experienced oversteer I was stone on my 1970 911S doing about 90 in third gear when I swapped ends. The last time it happened was under trailing throttle and the car unweighted after a slight and sudden dip in the road. I think you would be hard pressed to find anything like this in a 928's handling.

 

I can't believe I have to do this at a 928 board




A Tony Lapine = Anatole Lapine - the american who was chief of Design for Porsche during the years the 928 was developed and sold.




http://www.youtube.com/v/qypg3he7VYo




There was a great thread at a VW message board once talking about the 928 with the typical mis-information. Well there were 2 ex porsche dealership guys there and the story about servicing new 928's back in the day. It went like this - when they saw a 928 pull-up to the service door the techs would all moan. They didn't want to touch it. Too difficult, not used to it, could never complete the job in allotted time. Jobs were never done right resulting in call backs resulting in big bills resulting in the regional service manager hearing complaints 1 saturday a month and OK'ing all kinds of expenses to get things fixed when usually they wouldn't on other cars. Trying to keep the wealthy 928 owners happy. (vwlarry) Aston-Martin is going a similar thing with the V8 vantage.



I do not know any Mark Davis, I remember a David E davis who had a huge mustache like a Walrus who was an editor in chiel and publisher who loved the 928 though.

 

I think the point of the Mark Davis quote was that the 928 was more civilized and easier for most to drive fast and near the absolute limit of the car. The 911 on the other hand required a more experienced driver to get near the limit of the car. In the hands of a less experienced driver, the rear end would come around the first time the driver lays off the gas at the wrong time in the turn or in some other situation where the idiosyncrasies of the 911's rear weight bias took over. In that case, you've exceed the driver's limit but not the 911s. You need a more experienced driver to push the actual limits of the car. In this way, the 911 was more difficult to drive fast.

I have no personal experience here, but was the way that I've interpreted multiple comparison articles on the two cars.



[QUOTE=RKD in OKC;7804777]See how the well the ill gotten reputation has ingrained itself!!!

First Paragraph - I am going on what I hear from 911 drivers after they get beaten by my 928 GTs. Don't know what a Tony Lapine is. One or two cars being raced is NOT very many compared to just how many 911s are out there competing. I don't know how many magazine articles I've read as I was growing up comparing the 911 to other cars. The overall consensus was that if you put a professional driver in a car and compared their times to your typical owner/driver in the same car the times of the typical driver would be closer to the professional driver's time in a 911. There is also a video of Mark Davis, Editor of Car and Driver at the time, where he talks about the handling of the 928 and how it took their professional drivers 28 tries to go fast enough to get the 928 to slide around a corner at the limits for their video. Hence the argument that the 911 is easier to drive closer to the limits.

 

Exactly. They would still be going off the road if not for all the electric nannies they have like PASM and the other thing.