Radically re-designed console (Carputer, Climate, and one-touch windows)
04-23-2010, 06:03 AM
#77
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2) Thermal - While historically true, PCs used to be monstrous machines, but with the focus on green computing, Intel has blessed us with the "Atom" line of processors. The board I am recommending consumes around 25w, so the thermal load isnt what it once was. More efficient boards are available if necessary. Many current manufactures using Atom based configurations do not include fans at all, and have no heat problems at all. If a customer chose to use a Core2Duo or other high output processor, thermal and power requirements would need to be re-evaluated.
...
It's a complete PC that measures 101mm x 115mm x 27mm and consumes 6W at full throttle on a single 12v supply. Intel Atom, memory, SATA II, multiple USB, Ethernet, wireless, IR, video all in one TINY box.
(For the non-metric literate that's 4" x 4.5" x 1".)
At $250 on Amazon, it's also very cheap.
04-23-2010, 10:05 AM
#78
Rennlist Member
Jon,
The 25W is likely only the board, display and HDD would be more.
Intel states power on the D510MO Atom based motherboard (that was likely the retail version of the ZOTAC board) as >30W depending what cards are installed.
If they did the design for the ZOTAC board based on the D510MO then power is likely higher than 25W.
However, for sake of argument let's say it is inconsequential and there will be more than enough power to support the rail voltages even when there is a heavy load on the system.
The thermal question still exists. Cooling is still required in most designs and recommended by the board manufacturers.
This is directly from the Intel D510MO technical product specification.
"CAUTION
Ensure that proper airflow is maintained in the processor voltage regulator circuit.
Failure to do so may result in damage to the voltage regulator circuit. The processor
voltage regulator area (shown in Figure 16) can reach a temperature of up to 85 oC in
an open chassis."
In enclosed areas you need airflow. Even small box designs have some airflow. The ZOTAC board has a passive heatsink design with no airflow.
The system designer needs to provide it.
I'm not saying this is a bad design by any means. I think it is a good idea to bring our cars into the world of 21 century computing.
But I also believe in good electrical design that delivers reliability and minimizes customer problems.
The 25W is likely only the board, display and HDD would be more.
Intel states power on the D510MO Atom based motherboard (that was likely the retail version of the ZOTAC board) as >30W depending what cards are installed.
If they did the design for the ZOTAC board based on the D510MO then power is likely higher than 25W.
However, for sake of argument let's say it is inconsequential and there will be more than enough power to support the rail voltages even when there is a heavy load on the system.
The thermal question still exists. Cooling is still required in most designs and recommended by the board manufacturers.
This is directly from the Intel D510MO technical product specification.
"CAUTION
Ensure that proper airflow is maintained in the processor voltage regulator circuit.
Failure to do so may result in damage to the voltage regulator circuit. The processor
voltage regulator area (shown in Figure 16) can reach a temperature of up to 85 oC in
an open chassis."
In enclosed areas you need airflow. Even small box designs have some airflow. The ZOTAC board has a passive heatsink design with no airflow.
The system designer needs to provide it.
I'm not saying this is a bad design by any means. I think it is a good idea to bring our cars into the world of 21 century computing.
But I also believe in good electrical design that delivers reliability and minimizes customer problems.
Why would power be an issue ? Hans stated his MB uses 25W - thats about 2 amps at 12V . I'm not sure what other power drains there would be. Display ? or is this included in the 25W.
For comparison my ASUS eepc with 10" screen has a power supply rated at 2.1A at 15 volts - so at 12v it would be say 2.5A This is broadly the equivalent of half of one headlight bulb. - inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.
For comparison my ASUS eepc with 10" screen has a power supply rated at 2.1A at 15 volts - so at 12v it would be say 2.5A This is broadly the equivalent of half of one headlight bulb. - inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.
04-23-2010, 10:24 AM
#79
Former Vendor
I'm on board too. One of the glaring weaknesses in the 928 has always been the AC/window/sunroof/radio/clock/fan ctrl/etc.
It should be noted that the center console on the 90 and later cars has a slightly rounded upper right corner near the temp sensor. There will need to be two different consoles, one for pre-90 and one for 90 and later.
It should be noted that the center console on the 90 and later cars has a slightly rounded upper right corner near the temp sensor. There will need to be two different consoles, one for pre-90 and one for 90 and later.
we are not replacing the center console core, just the faceplate.
The new faceplate is a one piece unit that goes from the top vents to the window switches. It supports the PC, the AC controls, the "catch-all" module and a leather long boot.
The window switch unit will drop in the stock location but has a one piece top membrane instead of the 4 separate factory switches. We are still receiving quotes, but the standard finish will most likely be black, automotive grade, UV resistant, in a satin sheen, with white pictographs.
The whole thing can also be covered in a trimmed leather cover, with engraved pictographs for the day and lasered perforation to let the illumination shine through at night.
Paul
04-23-2010, 10:58 AM
#80
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04-23-2010, 11:11 AM
#81
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Hi there,
first of all: Great job - astonishing consequent done! Here we developed the same idea (basically cause of the wish to get control over all engine-parameters realtime via carputer) and solved it by installing a 8" touchscreen.
I'm Marc from Germany and I'll introduce myself in a separate thread, ok?
first of all: Great job - astonishing consequent done! Here we developed the same idea (basically cause of the wish to get control over all engine-parameters realtime via carputer) and solved it by installing a 8" touchscreen.
I'm Marc from Germany and I'll introduce myself in a separate thread, ok?
04-23-2010, 01:23 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
It's getting so I can't go by a day without saying "WOW" every time I come on rl. You vendors and inventors are hitting home runs left and right.
Amazing work guys!
Amazing work guys!
04-23-2010, 02:11 PM
#85
Three Wheelin'
Paul and Hans: I don't know how you guys were able to hold this **** in for as long as you did. I would have gone friggen nuts not telling people about this long-needed breakthrough in the cosmetic as well technical update you've designed. BUT.... all this, and still no easily used cup holder? Maybe move the membrane switches into the "catchall" spot and build in a fixed holder in the other spot. The center armrest is where stuff, junk & things should go. Damn, but we're a demanding bunch, aren't we! BTW, I'm all in as a prospect for this mod. However, I'd be forced to get your seats and center console and pod and.......and......and spend way more than I ever planned!
Haykay928: You're no slouch on what you did either. Looks great.
Haykay928: You're no slouch on what you did either. Looks great.
04-23-2010, 02:24 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Cupholder in a Champagne interior - that has divorce written all over it.....
All joking aside, it is a possible combination. The replacement widow-switch panel is constructed similar to a membrane switch - but its not. It uses an advanced technology inside that far surpasses any other available switch for longevity. It is very thin, finished height is not yet known, as I have bids coming in from the few places able to assemble these switches in the states. It would be safe to say that the assembled thickness should be around 4.5mm give or take a bit. It is a rigid assembly, but could be relocated in several locations as long as the surface it is to be installed in is relatively flat. It will flex *slightly* but not enough to match the curve of the panel at the "catch-all" location. Not saying it couldnt go there, but it would require some creative implementation/trim work as its one of those square peg in a round hole scenarios.
All joking aside, it is a possible combination. The replacement widow-switch panel is constructed similar to a membrane switch - but its not. It uses an advanced technology inside that far surpasses any other available switch for longevity. It is very thin, finished height is not yet known, as I have bids coming in from the few places able to assemble these switches in the states. It would be safe to say that the assembled thickness should be around 4.5mm give or take a bit. It is a rigid assembly, but could be relocated in several locations as long as the surface it is to be installed in is relatively flat. It will flex *slightly* but not enough to match the curve of the panel at the "catch-all" location. Not saying it couldnt go there, but it would require some creative implementation/trim work as its one of those square peg in a round hole scenarios.
04-23-2010, 02:45 PM
#87
Inventor
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Hans - did you consider making the panel flush, or even curved/proud of the console? More room for stuff, more ultra-modern.
04-23-2010, 02:53 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ken,
It would be very difficult to get a tidy fit using a 100% flush faceplate like you suggest. Since this is a "production" type product, we coudnt guarantee the fit and finish that Paul is know for on a flush insert. Since all consoles have their own charactersistics in foam density, warping.... etc, It is just unfeasible for us at this time to offer it in that configuration.
As it turns out, the newest batch of ultra-luxury cars have gone back to the ressesed models. It also provided a small amount of side-light protection to help prevent screen washout during early morning and late evening driving.
So in summary, there are no plans to include a flush-mount version in this product line.
Regards,
Hans
It would be very difficult to get a tidy fit using a 100% flush faceplate like you suggest. Since this is a "production" type product, we coudnt guarantee the fit and finish that Paul is know for on a flush insert. Since all consoles have their own charactersistics in foam density, warping.... etc, It is just unfeasible for us at this time to offer it in that configuration.
As it turns out, the newest batch of ultra-luxury cars have gone back to the ressesed models. It also provided a small amount of side-light protection to help prevent screen washout during early morning and late evening driving.
So in summary, there are no plans to include a flush-mount version in this product line.
Regards,
Hans
04-23-2010, 05:04 PM
#89
Former Vendor
Hans is right about that one. The design we have settled on will be an exact replacement for the factory multiple units. Just remove the old stuff and pop the new in.
The different finishes that we will offer for the faceplate will make a big difference with the old stock parts. From the modern carbon fiber and/or brushed aluminum, to the refined leather with fully stitched borders.
We should be able to match or complement any interior, and rival the best that is out there.
By the way, the brand new Aston Martin Rapide, and the whole Aston range for that matter, as a recessed faceplate on their award winning center console
Paul
04-23-2010, 05:16 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
Hans and Paul,
WOW - another WOW. This really looks neat, and so clean/functional. I'm very impressed - can't wait to see a finished one from Paul to make me salivate even more!
Hans, I NOW see what you were doing all this late winter instead of working on the front 9" wheels!! Good priority.
Just sorry I won't be able to see it "live and in person" at SITM.
Cheers,
Gary Knox
WOW - another WOW. This really looks neat, and so clean/functional. I'm very impressed - can't wait to see a finished one from Paul to make me salivate even more!
Hans, I NOW see what you were doing all this late winter instead of working on the front 9" wheels!! Good priority.
Just sorry I won't be able to see it "live and in person" at SITM.
Cheers,
Gary Knox
Last edited by Gary Knox; 04-23-2010 at 08:17 PM.
