Radically re-designed console (Carputer, Climate, and one-touch windows)
02-21-2011, 01:56 PM
#451
We appreciate the hard work, dedication, and true technical buggery that is involved in this. At least I do, and we can all wait patiently for your masterpiece. For those interested, it will be a major upgrade and modernization of the center area of the car.
After that I look forward to seeing dash gauge updates.
Just kidding.
After that I look forward to seeing dash gauge updates.
Just kidding.
02-21-2011, 02:13 PM
#452
Nordschleife Master
I got to see the prototype at 3rd Coast last Fall and let me tell you...this is going to be AMAZING!!! If we can eliminate that dang A/C control head from our cars it will save TONS of frustration for many and that alone would be worth the upgrade!
03-02-2011, 02:56 PM
#453
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Just wanted to bring this thread back from the depths, as work has officially resumed in earnest on this project. The wait has brought with it several good developements in the industry, which will yield a better overall product.
First is the release of the AMD Zecate platform. This is similar to the Nvidia Ion concept except it puts the graphics and processor in the same chip. It has excellent hardware video decoding and will be an ideal platform for the carputer. Best of all, they are very energy efficient, and cost effective ($110 at the time of writing).
Secondly, there have been some developments on the display front. There is a new display available which uses a high-brightness panel, and will soon have the option of multi-touch. The driver boards are much smaller, the wiring looms are all broken out separately (so we can reduce the amount of bulk in the console) and again, very cost effective. The base screen is $150 before options/modifications, which is a significant discount over previous high-brightness screens.
Third, Centrafuse has just released the long-awaited upgrade to its software platform. This will likely be the interface of choice for most, and the new version has many useful features which will make the user experience much cleaner and tailored for the 928.
I have both a new display and zecate board on the way for immediate testing (only minimal modifications of the console framework are required)
Last year while working on the window switches, I designed companion parts for the console to use the same components. These files have never been tested, but I will be working on those this week as well, getting that squared away.
The sticking point still remains a cost-effective climate replacement. While at ThirdCoast, I made the decision to have a parallel, low-tech climate option which I will be able to design myself. I think that I should have enough time to fully develop this concept, and that working shortly as well.
Things should move fairly rapidly. I will keep you all informed.
Thanks
Hans
First is the release of the AMD Zecate platform. This is similar to the Nvidia Ion concept except it puts the graphics and processor in the same chip. It has excellent hardware video decoding and will be an ideal platform for the carputer. Best of all, they are very energy efficient, and cost effective ($110 at the time of writing).
Secondly, there have been some developments on the display front. There is a new display available which uses a high-brightness panel, and will soon have the option of multi-touch. The driver boards are much smaller, the wiring looms are all broken out separately (so we can reduce the amount of bulk in the console) and again, very cost effective. The base screen is $150 before options/modifications, which is a significant discount over previous high-brightness screens.
Third, Centrafuse has just released the long-awaited upgrade to its software platform. This will likely be the interface of choice for most, and the new version has many useful features which will make the user experience much cleaner and tailored for the 928.
I have both a new display and zecate board on the way for immediate testing (only minimal modifications of the console framework are required)
Last year while working on the window switches, I designed companion parts for the console to use the same components. These files have never been tested, but I will be working on those this week as well, getting that squared away.
The sticking point still remains a cost-effective climate replacement. While at ThirdCoast, I made the decision to have a parallel, low-tech climate option which I will be able to design myself. I think that I should have enough time to fully develop this concept, and that working shortly as well.
Things should move fairly rapidly. I will keep you all informed.
Thanks
Hans
03-02-2011, 04:29 PM
#454
Nordschleife Master
I was talking to my mechanic the other day and raving about how awesome this product is going to be when it comes out. I was also knocking the climate control on the car and he said, "How many of these cars do you have and how many have you actually replaced the climate control head?" Eight (well seven street cars) and ZERO are the answers to the questions...
SO, his point was well taken, it is not usually the head unit for our climate control that is the problem, it is all the damn vacuum actuators in the system that are the issue. Using a new unit along with the touch screen will make the cars LOOK completely modern though so I understand going with that vs. leaving the stock unit in place.
Hans, I can't wait to see and read more about this. Sounds like Technology might be our friend with better usability and pricing by the time this hits our cars! Is there going to be USB front and rear for iPod/iPhone control? I bet that would be the #1 thing everyone would want along with Nav... Those would be my two requests anyway...
SO, his point was well taken, it is not usually the head unit for our climate control that is the problem, it is all the damn vacuum actuators in the system that are the issue. Using a new unit along with the touch screen will make the cars LOOK completely modern though so I understand going with that vs. leaving the stock unit in place.
Hans, I can't wait to see and read more about this. Sounds like Technology might be our friend with better usability and pricing by the time this hits our cars! Is there going to be USB front and rear for iPod/iPhone control? I bet that would be the #1 thing everyone would want along with Nav... Those would be my two requests anyway...
03-02-2011, 04:51 PM
#455
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think 8 USB ports are standard on most boards, but we can add more if that is not enough for you 
The problem with the climate is not that it doesnt work, its that it wont fit with all the equipment in the console. It takes up a great deal of space, which is required for other things. It is possible to cram it all in there, but it would require modifying the console extensively.
Thanks,
Hans
The problem with the climate is not that it doesnt work, its that it wont fit with all the equipment in the console. It takes up a great deal of space, which is required for other things. It is possible to cram it all in there, but it would require modifying the console extensively.
Thanks,
Hans
03-02-2011, 05:49 PM
#457
Rennlist Member
i still want version X.X that has the climate control totally integrated into the car computer and NO buttons on the console for it. Maybe just a row of programmable buttons for the touch screen.
Hans, I looked into making a custom interface for centrafuse and determined I really need a the hardware ie., computer/video card/screen to do a good enough job to justify the time it would take to custom build all the screens required. I am a perfectionist.
Hans, I looked into making a custom interface for centrafuse and determined I really need a the hardware ie., computer/video card/screen to do a good enough job to justify the time it would take to custom build all the screens required. I am a perfectionist.
03-02-2011, 06:03 PM
#458
Rennlist Member
I think 8 USB ports are standard on most boards, but we can add more if that is not enough for you
The problem with the climate is not that it doesnt work, its that it wont fit with all the equipment in the console. It takes up a great deal of space, which is required for other things. It is possible to cram it all in there, but it would require modifying the console extensively.
Thanks,
Hans
The problem with the climate is not that it doesnt work, its that it wont fit with all the equipment in the console. It takes up a great deal of space, which is required for other things. It is possible to cram it all in there, but it would require modifying the console extensively.
Thanks,
Hans
Great to read your update.
I think James may be asking for a front USB interface. Or SD Card?
03-28-2011, 06:20 PM
#463
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
For everyone who have been following this thread for almost a year and over 33 pages - Thank you for continued support and encouragement.
As it has been made clear over the past year, we have been able to work through almost every issue in-house except for the climate. In the past year, I have gone though several "specialists" who have gotten through various stages of an intelligent and pc interfacable climate control head - none have completed the job. It has been frustrating, time consuming, and costly.
Fastforward to last November and Third Coast where I was encouraged to make a more simple climate control, something that will update the headunit to something more reliable, but be compact enough to fit into the new console. Since that date, I have come up with several workable prototypes and circuits, but found a new stumbling block - illumination.
Making the replacement head work electrically was fairly straightforward, but finding a way to back-light it is very challenging. There are no commerical products on the market that will work in this application. The options were to make our own custom molded lightpipe, find a way to make a "homebrew" edge-lit panel, or commission a another custom fiberoptic component like we did for the switches and sills. It has been a difficult decision, as the startup costs on the fiberoptics are quite high, but we have decided to move forward with a dedicated fiberoptic panel for the climate control backlight.
What this means, is that there will be custom consoles available this spring. Because I dont know if and when any of the programmers/designers working on the advanced version of the climate head will pull through, i am only committing to delivering consoles with the simpler version of the climate this spring. I will work on making this simple version of the head more intelligent, probably offering a version which can be controlled via a remote and have no dedicated/visible controls for those who need more dash real-estate.
I have ordered parts to begin testing components for the user interface. While the early mockups work, they were targeted more at function and testing than form. I have ordered dozens of buttons, pots, and switches to try and find the right combination of components that will work well, but feel right in the car (we dont want any flimsy buttons with mushy feedback).
I am expecting these components to arrive mid-week. From there I will start evaluating and sorting through until several candidates are identified. Once I have the final components selected, I will make a "final" board layout so I can make a functional "final" prototype, with the components in the correct location relative to the cosmetic design. Once that is completed, I can double check the drawings we have made for the fiberoptics, and then send them out for the prototype and approval process. I would say it will take 2 weeks to get the prototype for approval, and then another 3-4 weeks for manufacturing.
What this means is that we have made a huge step forward in committing to use the fiberoptics, but it still an added delay for the design, approval, and manufacturing process with the fiberoptic company. For those who may be curious, this is a US manufacturing company, and all design and production is done domestically, the time-line stems from the fact that it is a very complicated part, which will have die-cut holes and special routing of the optical fibers around these holes. The good news is that shipping after the manufacturing process will only take a couple days.
The final featureset for the "simple" climate is as follows:
As mentioned above, there will be four dedicated push-buttons on the head in addition to the three ***** (fanspeed, temperature, and vent selection). Two of the buttons are fixed as a dedicated recirculation button and the demist button. The other two will be assignable to either the AC clutch button and a rear AC integration button, but will have jumpers on the board to allow other functions to be routed to these buttons for applications where rear AC is not an issue, or there is a dedicated AC button (stock replacement). In these instances, the positions can be deleted entirely, or used for functions like rear wiper or rear defrost to free-up more useful buttons and switches in the car.
On the new console, there really isnt much room to include the factory rear AC controls. We are going to suggest relocating these to the driver-side handbrake cover, however we realize this isnt the most convenient option, so we will include a simple rear AC integration button on the replacement climate head. This button will simply toggle the rear AC to come on or off when the max-cool switch is reached on the temperature ****. For those who may not be familiar with the stock climate internals, there are two micro switches along the temperature adjuster. The temp set potentiometer is bypassed when the selector moves to the end of the adjustment path, ending with a max-heat and max-cool switch. When these switches are activated the climate system goes into an open-loop setting where it does not regulate temperature, but just goes to the maximum possible settings. When the rear AC button is engaged, triggering the max-cool switch will turn on the rear ac blower to its highest setting and coolest temperature. This effect can be turned off by either backing the temperature control **** back so the microswitch is no longer engaged, or by turning the feature off with the push-button. This integration option was the result of a poll conducted last year on how people actually use their rear AC. We learned that most people only used it when it was very hot, and only to help cool the car down initially, turning it off when the car was comfortable, and then using the front unit only to maintain the a cool temperature. We though that we could mimic this system by tying in with that max-cool temperature switch.
So, a major stumbling block has been removed, and this will be available this spring. We will not be accepting pre-orders until the product is ready to ship. I appreciate your interest, but please dont send PM's to be added to the list. I will make sure that everyone know when we are ready to start accepting orders.
Thanks,
Hans
As it has been made clear over the past year, we have been able to work through almost every issue in-house except for the climate. In the past year, I have gone though several "specialists" who have gotten through various stages of an intelligent and pc interfacable climate control head - none have completed the job. It has been frustrating, time consuming, and costly.
Fastforward to last November and Third Coast where I was encouraged to make a more simple climate control, something that will update the headunit to something more reliable, but be compact enough to fit into the new console. Since that date, I have come up with several workable prototypes and circuits, but found a new stumbling block - illumination.
Making the replacement head work electrically was fairly straightforward, but finding a way to back-light it is very challenging. There are no commerical products on the market that will work in this application. The options were to make our own custom molded lightpipe, find a way to make a "homebrew" edge-lit panel, or commission a another custom fiberoptic component like we did for the switches and sills. It has been a difficult decision, as the startup costs on the fiberoptics are quite high, but we have decided to move forward with a dedicated fiberoptic panel for the climate control backlight.
What this means, is that there will be custom consoles available this spring. Because I dont know if and when any of the programmers/designers working on the advanced version of the climate head will pull through, i am only committing to delivering consoles with the simpler version of the climate this spring. I will work on making this simple version of the head more intelligent, probably offering a version which can be controlled via a remote and have no dedicated/visible controls for those who need more dash real-estate.
I have ordered parts to begin testing components for the user interface. While the early mockups work, they were targeted more at function and testing than form. I have ordered dozens of buttons, pots, and switches to try and find the right combination of components that will work well, but feel right in the car (we dont want any flimsy buttons with mushy feedback).
I am expecting these components to arrive mid-week. From there I will start evaluating and sorting through until several candidates are identified. Once I have the final components selected, I will make a "final" board layout so I can make a functional "final" prototype, with the components in the correct location relative to the cosmetic design. Once that is completed, I can double check the drawings we have made for the fiberoptics, and then send them out for the prototype and approval process. I would say it will take 2 weeks to get the prototype for approval, and then another 3-4 weeks for manufacturing.
What this means is that we have made a huge step forward in committing to use the fiberoptics, but it still an added delay for the design, approval, and manufacturing process with the fiberoptic company. For those who may be curious, this is a US manufacturing company, and all design and production is done domestically, the time-line stems from the fact that it is a very complicated part, which will have die-cut holes and special routing of the optical fibers around these holes. The good news is that shipping after the manufacturing process will only take a couple days.
The final featureset for the "simple" climate is as follows:
- 100% variable fan speed control
- Dedicated recirculation button avaialable in any mode
- Dedicated demist button
- Optional integration with the rear AC when applicable (more later in post)
- Optional AC compressor button
- Properly sized AC relay
As mentioned above, there will be four dedicated push-buttons on the head in addition to the three ***** (fanspeed, temperature, and vent selection). Two of the buttons are fixed as a dedicated recirculation button and the demist button. The other two will be assignable to either the AC clutch button and a rear AC integration button, but will have jumpers on the board to allow other functions to be routed to these buttons for applications where rear AC is not an issue, or there is a dedicated AC button (stock replacement). In these instances, the positions can be deleted entirely, or used for functions like rear wiper or rear defrost to free-up more useful buttons and switches in the car.
On the new console, there really isnt much room to include the factory rear AC controls. We are going to suggest relocating these to the driver-side handbrake cover, however we realize this isnt the most convenient option, so we will include a simple rear AC integration button on the replacement climate head. This button will simply toggle the rear AC to come on or off when the max-cool switch is reached on the temperature ****. For those who may not be familiar with the stock climate internals, there are two micro switches along the temperature adjuster. The temp set potentiometer is bypassed when the selector moves to the end of the adjustment path, ending with a max-heat and max-cool switch. When these switches are activated the climate system goes into an open-loop setting where it does not regulate temperature, but just goes to the maximum possible settings. When the rear AC button is engaged, triggering the max-cool switch will turn on the rear ac blower to its highest setting and coolest temperature. This effect can be turned off by either backing the temperature control **** back so the microswitch is no longer engaged, or by turning the feature off with the push-button. This integration option was the result of a poll conducted last year on how people actually use their rear AC. We learned that most people only used it when it was very hot, and only to help cool the car down initially, turning it off when the car was comfortable, and then using the front unit only to maintain the a cool temperature. We though that we could mimic this system by tying in with that max-cool temperature switch.
So, a major stumbling block has been removed, and this will be available this spring. We will not be accepting pre-orders until the product is ready to ship. I appreciate your interest, but please dont send PM's to be added to the list. I will make sure that everyone know when we are ready to start accepting orders.
Thanks,
Hans
Last edited by hans14914; 03-28-2011 at 06:51 PM.
03-28-2011, 06:35 PM
#464
Don't give up on the full option.
03-28-2011, 06:46 PM
#465
Former Vendor
Hello all,
I want to add to Hans excellent post, that the face of this new "simple" climate control, will be available in many finishes, just like our window switch panel.
First and standard, will be the black texture that matches our 928 interior so well, but the carbon fiber and brushed aluminum will also be available at no extra cost for those who prefer.
The decision to go with a dedicated fiber optic panel was not an easy one, but the quality of the finished product and the reliability of each components, finally tipped the scale.
Our experience with this particular product, also gives us a bit of a home court advantage when the time comes to explore new ways to use it. In this particular case, we will be able to color specific areas, so the hot side will light up as red and the cold side will light up as blue.
This should be a nice, solid upgrade, of the one component that looks the most dated in our interiors.
And yes, thank you all for your support and patience.
Paul
I want to add to Hans excellent post, that the face of this new "simple" climate control, will be available in many finishes, just like our window switch panel.
First and standard, will be the black texture that matches our 928 interior so well, but the carbon fiber and brushed aluminum will also be available at no extra cost for those who prefer.
The decision to go with a dedicated fiber optic panel was not an easy one, but the quality of the finished product and the reliability of each components, finally tipped the scale.
Our experience with this particular product, also gives us a bit of a home court advantage when the time comes to explore new ways to use it. In this particular case, we will be able to color specific areas, so the hot side will light up as red and the cold side will light up as blue.
This should be a nice, solid upgrade, of the one component that looks the most dated in our interiors.
And yes, thank you all for your support and patience.
Paul