Notices
928 Forum 1978-1995
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Twin Turbo 928 fixed and back out there terrorizing the streets!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-23-2020, 10:29 AM
  #2341  
SwayBar
Rennlist Member
 
SwayBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago Bears
Posts: 3,533
Received 326 Likes on 225 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ptuomov
The first complete oil squirter test install to non-squirter block:
Nice job!

I've been meaning to ask this earlier: have you guys been able to visualize the spray pattern at temperature, and at pressure?

I just looked this up, and find it very interesting, mainly because it's not what I expected (..I have zero knowledge on it):


I was expecting the oil stream to be like a high-pressure fire-hose, but it's simply slow 'n steady.

I know that the oil's primary job is to lubricate the engine, and secondarily to cool it, so oil-flow thru the squirters need to be measured/throttled so as to not impede lubrication in any way.

Have you guys run any flow-tests to eyeball the spray pattern and measure volume?
Old 05-23-2020, 02:24 PM
  #2342  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Because of other commercial projects, John Kuhn has a full test rig with correct viscosity test fluid for testing oil system components. Of course he hooked up these squirters to the test rig, how could you resist!?

These are the same squirter components that were used in the early ‘87 S4. They produce a pencil-like spray pattern that at 928 S4 oil pressures fly much further and flow much more than those about 0.25l/minute MG squirters In the video. I don’t have the exact figures, but it’s a lot more.

Because these squirters came with one model year 928, because they only open at relatively high pressure, and because the 928 S4 oil pump is very oversized at high rpms, I don’t think there is any chance of us running out of the oil pump capacity because of these squirters.
Old 05-23-2020, 03:25 PM
  #2343  
SwayBar
Rennlist Member
 
SwayBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago Bears
Posts: 3,533
Received 326 Likes on 225 Posts
Default

P, just asking, certainly not criticizing!
Old 05-23-2020, 05:08 PM
  #2344  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SwayBar
P, just asking, certainly not criticizing!
I didn’t take it as criticism. One has to think it all thru when making changes.

this how it clears the rod and the piston at the top of the stroke:

View this post on Instagram



Last edited by ptuomov; 05-23-2020 at 06:40 PM.
Old 05-27-2020, 12:56 PM
  #2345  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default An update video:

A video update from four days ago:



Things have since them moved on and the squirters are in place.


Old 06-02-2020, 03:43 PM
  #2346  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default Modified #2 main junction.

Here’s some work in progress. John Kuhn is hand reshaping the girdle oil passage junction to main #2. The objective is to make it less of an air-oil separator that sends air to #2 and oil further down in the passage. The physics principles are based oil being denser than air, and thus ending up on the bottom and not wanting to turn. Photo:



Old 06-03-2020, 12:30 AM
  #2347  
blau928
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
blau928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Monterey Peninsula, CA
Posts: 2,374
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ptuomov
Here’s some work in progress. John Kuhn is hand reshaping the girdle oil passage junction to main #2. The objective is to make it less of an air-oil separator that sends air to #2 and oil further down in the passage. The physics principles are based oil being denser than air, and thus ending up on the bottom and not wanting to turn. Photo:


Excellent physics implementation to keep the rods and pistons happy
Old 06-03-2020, 03:54 AM
  #2348  
Strosek Ultra
Rennlist Member
 
Strosek Ultra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mostly in my workshop located in Sweden.
Posts: 2,230
Received 463 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ptuomov
Here’s some work in progress. John Kuhn is hand reshaping the girdle oil passage junction to main #2. The objective is to make it less of an air-oil separator that sends air to #2 and oil further down in the passage. The physics principles are based oil being denser than air, and thus ending up on the bottom and not wanting to turn. Photo:


Should not the far away corner be sharp in order to help the oil to turn?
Åke
Old 06-03-2020, 10:30 AM
  #2349  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Strosek Ultra
Should not the far away corner be sharp in order to help the oil to turn?
Åke
Good question. My layman thinking (not to be confused with a fact) is that you want a relatively sharp edge at the bottom of the channel and a rounded edge at the top, if the air is at the top and the oil is at the bottom. In a sense, the rounded edge at the top gives air another chance to get back to the main channel if the oil from the bottom pushes up. It's all speculation and hypothesizing, and will remain so as I don't think this version will get a plexiglass bolted on it for experiments.
Old 06-05-2020, 10:34 AM
  #2350  
SwayBar
Rennlist Member
 
SwayBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago Bears
Posts: 3,533
Received 326 Likes on 225 Posts
Default

I came across this 993 rebuild, and noticed the oil-squirter down there and thought you'd be interested:

993 Engine Oil Squirter
Old 06-06-2020, 03:33 PM
  #2351  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default 9 lbf-ft breakaway torque

After spending months getting the squirters right, John Kuhn is starting to assemble. Rings and bearings have very little friction.







Old 06-13-2020, 05:35 PM
  #2352  
ptuomov
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
 
ptuomov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,610
Received 81 Likes on 64 Posts
Default Assembly continues

John’s assembly effort continues:



Old 06-14-2020, 08:12 AM
  #2353  
Strosek Ultra
Rennlist Member
 
Strosek Ultra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mostly in my workshop located in Sweden.
Posts: 2,230
Received 463 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ptuomov
John’s assembly effort continues:


Your oil control system reminds me of Ihihara-Johnson Crank Scraper and Windage Tray but not exactly the same. Is it your own design? You do not show the inside of the oil pan. For the blue car I made my own windage tray (first picture) for testing and it seems to work alright. The second picture show how the oil scraper is designed for the BMW Alpina V8.
Åke


Last edited by Strosek Ultra; 06-14-2020 at 01:11 PM.
Old 06-14-2020, 12:59 PM
  #2354  
SwayBar
Rennlist Member
 
SwayBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago Bears
Posts: 3,533
Received 326 Likes on 225 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Strosek Ultra
Your, oil control system reminds me of Ihihara-Johnson Crank Scraper and Windage Tray but not exactly the same. Is it your own design?
That is an Ishihara-Johnson crank scraper - looks exactly like mine.
Old 06-14-2020, 01:18 PM
  #2355  
Strosek Ultra
Rennlist Member
 
Strosek Ultra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mostly in my workshop located in Sweden.
Posts: 2,230
Received 463 Likes on 248 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SwayBar
That is an Ishihara-Johnson crank scraper - looks exactly like mine.
NLA from Ishihara-Johnson. Suppose that is the system sold by Carl. Pictures from Ishihara-Johnson show a GTS system.
SwayBar how does it work for your engine?
Åke





Quick Reply: Twin Turbo 928 fixed and back out there terrorizing the streets!



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 09:47 AM.