Oil pan baffle archeological find: totally useless or answer to acillies heel?
02-26-2010, 06:23 PM
#106
Rennlist Member
how do I find out how they mounted those headlight lenses? that looks really cool. with my PIA lights behind them, that would be like head lights, but with out the "Pop-up". 
(I have pia lights under the covers that are made from "L" brackets and are supported by the chassis and lower fender bracket.)
they are 55watts and would be perfect for this type of lense.
(I have pia lights under the covers that are made from "L" brackets and are supported by the chassis and lower fender bracket.)they are 55watts and would be perfect for this type of lense.
02-26-2010, 06:38 PM
#107
Race Car
I have a factory marine kit that I am using to build a jet boat. All of the components have 928 part numbers cast into them. For what it's worth...the numbers on that baffle do not seem to sequence with any of the numbers on these parts.
But..I am watching this thread now...wondering if I am going to have oiling issues. Maybe an accusump is in order.
But..I am watching this thread now...wondering if I am going to have oiling issues. Maybe an accusump is in order.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
02-26-2010, 07:57 PM
#108
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Numbers are based on what area of the car part is for. For oil pan part number should be similar to other numbers like GTS paffle. I would for example expect boat engine headers to have similar number as normal headers.
02-27-2010, 06:32 AM
#109
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Uh-oh. Shame on me for believing what I read and not comparing carefully to the picture.
Part number is not 928.107.139.06 but rather 928.107.139.08 so it came AFTER the GTS baffle.
Magnify the image in a photo program.
Damn. Lemon juice, black ops, helicopters ... gone. Gone. All gone !!
But it reinforces the idea that Porsche had these available for the Moritz car.
Better ask Porsche Classics again.
Quick check for the Moritz car sans pulling the pan is to look at the underside of the sump casting carefully. You can see that the mold was modified to create bosses to support the threads of the fasteners.
Part number is not 928.107.139.06 but rather 928.107.139.08 so it came AFTER the GTS baffle.
Magnify the image in a photo program.
Damn. Lemon juice, black ops, helicopters ... gone. Gone. All gone !!
But it reinforces the idea that Porsche had these available for the Moritz car.
Better ask Porsche Classics again.
Quick check for the Moritz car sans pulling the pan is to look at the underside of the sump casting carefully. You can see that the mold was modified to create bosses to support the threads of the fasteners.
Whats interesting is it appears to my laymans eyes that this baffle was designed for a broader solution than the GTS baffle which has the superceding part number.
By broader solution, I mean actually attempting to condense the windage by separating/scraping it from the rotating crank, unlike the GTS one which just aims to keep more oil around the pickup and prevent the oil wave moving back along the pan due to acceleration.
Given the complexity difference, I have to wonder whether the later design was created as a cheaper solution, rather than as a more effective one?
Also - looking at it, I find myself wondering whether it may even work in addition to the GTS baffle? Looks like a fair bit of clearance under it, and as though there wouldn't be interference around the pickup.
Pic of the GTS baffle in my '89's sump attached to see what I mean.
Interesting that this implies Porsche must have been working on a crank scraper for the 928 sometime before the 1992 introduction of the GTS.
By broader solution, I mean actually attempting to condense the windage by separating/scraping it from the rotating crank, unlike the GTS one which just aims to keep more oil around the pickup and prevent the oil wave moving back along the pan due to acceleration.
Given the complexity difference, I have to wonder whether the later design was created as a cheaper solution, rather than as a more effective one?
Also - looking at it, I find myself wondering whether it may even work in addition to the GTS baffle? Looks like a fair bit of clearance under it, and as though there wouldn't be interference around the pickup.
Pic of the GTS baffle in my '89's sump attached to see what I mean.
Interesting that this implies Porsche must have been working on a crank scraper for the 928 sometime before the 1992 introduction of the GTS.
02-27-2010, 06:42 AM
#110
Nordschleife Master
Are you sure Kevin? It's possible its an 8, but it looks like a 6 to me - the left side of that final number looks to have a straight edge at the thickening where the 3 lines join. Compared with the 8 of 928. Also look at the 9 of 928 - similar thickening where the 3 lines join there.
Aryan - have you had spoken to or exchanged e-mails with the ebay seller? Can they confirm the part number directly?
edit: Applied a sharpen filter to it - I'm sure its a 6, the shape of the lower loop of the last digit is too oval compared with the lower loop of the 8. Confirmation from the seller would still be good tho.
Still doesn't get us any closer to answers however.
As an aside - anyone who's contacted the seller happen to ask if they have the whole engine this came off? Can't help but wonder what other non-standard bits were on it.
Aryan - have you had spoken to or exchanged e-mails with the ebay seller? Can they confirm the part number directly?
edit: Applied a sharpen filter to it - I'm sure its a 6, the shape of the lower loop of the last digit is too oval compared with the lower loop of the 8. Confirmation from the seller would still be good tho.
Still doesn't get us any closer to answers however.
As an aside - anyone who's contacted the seller happen to ask if they have the whole engine this came off? Can't help but wonder what other non-standard bits were on it.
02-27-2010, 06:52 AM
#111
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Are you sure Kevin? It's possible its an 8, but it looks like a 6 to me - the left side of that final number looks to have a straight edge at the thickening where the 3 lines join. Compared with the 8 of 928. Also look at the 9 of 928 - similar thickening where the 3 lines join there.
Aryan - have you had spoken to or exchanged e-mails with the ebay seller? Can they confirm the part number directly?
Aryan - have you had spoken to or exchanged e-mails with the ebay seller? Can they confirm the part number directly?
I'll keep the chopper idling but I will have to go to the store to buy more lemons.
Last edited by Kevin Johnson; 02-27-2010 at 07:33 AM.
02-27-2010, 02:31 PM
#112
Drifting
What is the time please - the aston time and which course is it? the NBN or with race course included?
02-27-2010, 02:38 PM
#113
Drifting
I remember from when I had the pan of my euro S motor out, it had a decent baffle in the lower part of the pan. It looked like the crosshairs of a scope, with a circle in the middle where the oil pickup tube inserted. The whole thing was about as tall as the deep part of the pan IIRC. I don't think the US motor had that.
It didn't have any part of the baffle traveling up the shallow part though.
It didn't have any part of the baffle traveling up the shallow part though.
I have seen the pics earlier in this thread and have spent time cleaning my own Euro S2 oil pan before putting on the new gasket. Like Erik says theS2 pan has little walls at the back of the deep well that made it difficult to reach into the front for cleaning.
Are these walls (baffles) in all early pans, why were they taken out of later pans?
02-27-2010, 03:08 PM
#114
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I have seen the pics earlier in this thread and have spent time cleaning my own Euro S2 oil pan before putting on the new gasket. Like Erik says theS2 pan has little walls at the back of the deep well that made it difficult to reach into the front for cleaning.
Are these walls (baffles) in all early pans, why were they taken out of later pans?
Are these walls (baffles) in all early pans, why were they taken out of later pans?
The walls remained in the pan. The early system was much more complex than that, though. It had a plastic guide to funnel (or allow the pickup to draw from...) a large area of the sump. The pickup tube had a spring loaded rubber boot that was received by this piece. The opening to the tube was free of any screening. The screening was a separate piece that filtered and helped defoam oil coming into the sump. One of the most advanced setups I have seen and I look at a lot of them.
Why did they go to the later style? Cost. The screening design was good for helping to break down foam but could not overcome the heavy entrainment of air which is distinct from surface foam.
02-27-2010, 09:22 PM
#115
Race Director
The walls remained in the pan. The early system was much more complex than that, though. It had a plastic guide to funnel (or allow the pickup to draw from...) a large area of the sump. The pickup tube had a spring loaded rubber boot that was received by this piece. The opening to the tube was free of any screening. The screening was a separate piece that filtered and helped defoam oil coming into the sump. One of the most advanced setups I have seen and I look at a lot of them.
Why did they go to the later style? Cost. The screening design was good for helping to break down foam but could not overcome the heavy entrainment of air which is distinct from surface foam.
Why did they go to the later style? Cost. The screening design was good for helping to break down foam but could not overcome the heavy entrainment of air which is distinct from surface foam.
This is why I CHANGED to the early sump on the lemons racer.....
I should have an accurate oil pressure & temp setup in the car after the next race...that added to the new video system that got installed today (two cameras) I will make a video showing the drivers view and a view of the gauges (PIP)....this "test" should be very telling to how well the early sump works or doesn't.....
02-28-2010, 06:12 PM
#116
Rennlist Member
The Aston N24 V8 was lapping at 10m:20sec-30sec range in the dry, while the 928S was lapping in the 10m:15sec-10m:25sec. You got to bear in mind that the 928 only had to last a 3hr race, while the Aston was in for 24hrs, but none-the-less it is a pretty decent result. The lap times were for the Nurburgring Nordschleife + GP Strecke, which gives you a time of around 8:00min for the Nordschleife and 2:30mins for the GP track...
02-28-2010, 06:23 PM
#117
Former Vendor
02-28-2010, 08:31 PM
#118
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Right boats do not coast no shifting to overdrive and idling along.....shows how unnatural it is to get a boat up on plane and keep it there. Sure is fun though ! Just wears out motors FAST.
02-28-2010, 09:57 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
The walls remained in the pan. The early system was much more complex than that, though. It had a plastic guide to funnel (or allow the pickup to draw from...) a large area of the sump. The pickup tube had a spring loaded rubber boot that was received by this piece. The opening to the tube was free of any screening. The screening was a separate piece that filtered and helped defoam oil coming into the sump. One of the most advanced setups I have seen and I look at a lot of them.
Why did they go to the later style? Cost. The screening design was good for helping to break down foam but could not overcome the heavy entrainment of air which is distinct from surface foam.
Why did they go to the later style? Cost. The screening design was good for helping to break down foam but could not overcome the heavy entrainment of air which is distinct from surface foam.
928nut
02-28-2010, 11:05 PM
#120
Race Director
Great pics.....this is the exact same setup I have on the lemons racer with a small 3/8th spacer on the pickup.....