Oil in the water. what does it mean?? UPDATE: WATER IN THE OIL TOO!! :(
12-30-2009, 12:01 AM
#61
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Not sure if it would help.I had someone do some heads before and went to far in porting didnt know it till after.
From a radiator shop I borrowed a tool to pump up the air pressure into the the water system while the radiator was in the car.It screws on where the radiator cap goes and puts pressure into the whole water system while the car is off.I could see water come up the intake port and fill the intake.Not sure that would help depends where the leak is.Once you get it back in and if you still have the problem pump the whole system up.Then take the plugs out and crank the motor over,if any water is in the sytem under pressure that is getting into the cylinders it should fly out of the spark plug hole.With the one cylinder I tested the water hit the ceiling in the garage!That may check the heads if anything getting into the cylinders.Then I left it under pressure could see water slowly coming up the intake port till it started filling the intake.It was on a different style motor but was a new race motor.
From a radiator shop I borrowed a tool to pump up the air pressure into the the water system while the radiator was in the car.It screws on where the radiator cap goes and puts pressure into the whole water system while the car is off.I could see water come up the intake port and fill the intake.Not sure that would help depends where the leak is.Once you get it back in and if you still have the problem pump the whole system up.Then take the plugs out and crank the motor over,if any water is in the sytem under pressure that is getting into the cylinders it should fly out of the spark plug hole.With the one cylinder I tested the water hit the ceiling in the garage!That may check the heads if anything getting into the cylinders.Then I left it under pressure could see water slowly coming up the intake port till it started filling the intake.It was on a different style motor but was a new race motor.
Hopefully its only the gasket.I like using the permatex copper head gasket spray depending thou on the type of head gasket.
12-30-2009, 12:43 AM
#63
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This place shows some at:
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/product...=526&sku=18945
If this is the same one?
This was the other copper spray.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ve_Sealant.htm
Used it on head gaskets,motorcycle side cover gaskets instead of silicone.
Few light layers on each side seemed to work good.
Let it tack alittle put another layer on etc so it doesn't drip.
I have put as much as 4 to 5 light layers on each side for head gaskets.
Like it says in ad Fills minor surface irregularities. Seals instantly. Fills hot spots and surface imperfections.
Last edited by inactiveuser1; 12-30-2009 at 01:06 AM.
12-30-2009, 01:25 AM
#64
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Mark find a shop with a chemical tester called Block Check, they are cheap to buy and cheap to use.
It will show if you have combustion chamber gasses in the cooling system.
Seems like every time some one thinks head gaskets the first thing that is suggested is a compression test, I have seen MANY, MANY blown head gaskets that would only show up with a chemical test.
For what it is worth.
Greg
It will show if you have combustion chamber gasses in the cooling system.
Seems like every time some one thinks head gaskets the first thing that is suggested is a compression test, I have seen MANY, MANY blown head gaskets that would only show up with a chemical test.
For what it is worth.
Greg
the finish on the heads and block were over the 50RA recommeded surface quality. Yes, the engine ran hot during the testing in the new chassis, as the red light came on after the gauge only read a little over 3/4. I believe the warning light! But, that was only for a few seconds, and that might have warped something.
M928--
He has water in the oil, and suspects that there's a leak between the water jacket and one of the oil galleys via either a crack or a head gasket failure. Your advice is tsill sound, but instead of looking for oil in the intake or a cylinder, the coling system could be pressurized with the tester, with the oil sump plug out. Water will find its way to the sump via an oil passage if there's a gasket failure. Cracks change size with heat though, so you may not find a leak through a crack with this method unless it stays open when cold.
He has water in the oil, and suspects that there's a leak between the water jacket and one of the oil galleys via either a crack or a head gasket failure. Your advice is tsill sound, but instead of looking for oil in the intake or a cylinder, the coling system could be pressurized with the tester, with the oil sump plug out. Water will find its way to the sump via an oil passage if there's a gasket failure. Cracks change size with heat though, so you may not find a leak through a crack with this method unless it stays open when cold.
next I think Ill fill it with cheap oil and run it with barrs stop leak to see if I can stop the water seeping. now, the oil might be a different issue, or maybe the same passage. the Barrs works on the water exiting the breach, and doesnt keep stuff from coming in . so the oil might push open the hole and the water will leak out again or if it seals it enough, maybe it will stop the oil as well. I have a feeling its a warping around the high pressure passage.
12-30-2009, 01:26 AM
#65
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Not sure if they had it on their site.
This place shows some at:
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/product...=526&sku=18945
If this is the same one?
This was the other copper spray.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ve_Sealant.htm
Used it on head gaskets,motorcycle side cover gaskets instead of silicone.
Few light layers on each side seemed to work good.
Let it tack alittle put another layer on etc so it doesn't drip.
I have put as much as 4 to 5 light layers on each side for head gaskets.
Like it says in ad Fills minor surface irregularities. Seals instantly. Fills hot spots and surface imperfections.
This place shows some at:
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/product...=526&sku=18945
If this is the same one?
This was the other copper spray.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ve_Sealant.htm
Used it on head gaskets,motorcycle side cover gaskets instead of silicone.
Few light layers on each side seemed to work good.
Let it tack alittle put another layer on etc so it doesn't drip.
I have put as much as 4 to 5 light layers on each side for head gaskets.
Like it says in ad Fills minor surface irregularities. Seals instantly. Fills hot spots and surface imperfections.
Hylomar is some really good stuff.
I hate RTV and like Hylomar.
12-30-2009, 02:33 AM
#66
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Yea, that is the same one, but there was a problem with some, they ended up with thousands of spray cans that had a lot of solvent and not much hyolmar in it, there was a lot of finger pointing and no product being shipped or sold, but that was a year ago.
Hylomar is some really good stuff.
I hate RTV and like Hylomar.
Hylomar is some really good stuff.
I hate RTV and like Hylomar.
12-30-2009, 01:02 PM
#67
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is this the only hole that feeds the heads under full pressure?
(little round hole next to the oil return passage to the lower right of the head)
(little round hole next to the oil return passage to the lower right of the head)
12-30-2009, 01:10 PM
#68
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greg brown
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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
12-30-2009, 02:26 PM
#69
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12-30-2009, 08:41 PM
#70
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Unfortunately this only proves that you don't have a huge leak -- it doesn't prove that there is no leak in the heat exchanger. It could be leak-tight when cold but it's possible for a crack to open up and leak only when hot.
12-30-2009, 09:02 PM
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Fret about a different path.
12-30-2009, 09:24 PM
#73
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Last edited by jcorenman; 12-30-2009 at 09:52 PM.
12-30-2009, 10:21 PM
#74
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thanks greg. Yep, done that with scots when it was pushing out water from the overflow. barrs stop leak doesnt stop that kind of leak, but it does stop it from seeping out the heads or out of a radiator. I would think that the issue I have is from the gasket or warping of the heads (or a crack) based on what we are seeing . (oil in the water, slightly, and lots of water in the oil).
It ran great, in the new chassis, except for the bad (cracked) distrib. cap where it was backfiring during accel. heads were not retorque after it ran, that is near impossible and not needed with a 928, but with cometic, who knows. for a full season and a half of racing, there has been no issues at all.
the finish on the heads and block were over the 50RA recommeded surface quality. Yes, the engine ran hot during the testing in the new chassis, as the red light came on after the gauge only read a little over 3/4. I believe the warning light! But, that was only for a few seconds, and that might have warped something.
Remember, most of the water ran into the oil after it was cooled down, so maybe I do that test with no oil and the plug open and see if it leaks. too bad I cant dye the water different colors for each side and see what color comes out.
next I think Ill fill it with cheap oil and run it with barrs stop leak to see if I can stop the water seeping. now, the oil might be a different issue, or maybe the same passage. the Barrs works on the water exiting the breach, and doesnt keep stuff from coming in . so the oil might push open the hole and the water will leak out again or if it seals it enough, maybe it will stop the oil as well. I have a feeling its a warping around the high pressure passage.
It ran great, in the new chassis, except for the bad (cracked) distrib. cap where it was backfiring during accel. heads were not retorque after it ran, that is near impossible and not needed with a 928, but with cometic, who knows. for a full season and a half of racing, there has been no issues at all.
the finish on the heads and block were over the 50RA recommeded surface quality. Yes, the engine ran hot during the testing in the new chassis, as the red light came on after the gauge only read a little over 3/4. I believe the warning light! But, that was only for a few seconds, and that might have warped something.
Remember, most of the water ran into the oil after it was cooled down, so maybe I do that test with no oil and the plug open and see if it leaks. too bad I cant dye the water different colors for each side and see what color comes out.
next I think Ill fill it with cheap oil and run it with barrs stop leak to see if I can stop the water seeping. now, the oil might be a different issue, or maybe the same passage. the Barrs works on the water exiting the breach, and doesnt keep stuff from coming in . so the oil might push open the hole and the water will leak out again or if it seals it enough, maybe it will stop the oil as well. I have a feeling its a warping around the high pressure passage.
I am with Greg Brown, I doubt you have a head gasket issue.
The chances of it leaking just to the high presure port in the block and the water jacket are slim, at best, with no other signs of a head gasket leak.
EDIT, never tried this on the car, but I did have mine looped when on the engine stand.
12-30-2009, 10:37 PM
#75
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+1 "The chances of it leaking just to the high presure port in the block and the water jacket are slim, at best, with no other signs of a head gasket leak. ".
I would lookd at the cooler first too.
I would lookd at the cooler first too.