dprantl

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the '91 full rear liners will fit all '87-'91 GT/S4's without modification. They may even fit eariler years, since the rear fender area shape did not really change, and the changes for the bumper cover were just far enough to the rear?

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

heinrich

You don't want them!!! THey are crap - which is why someone is re-making them.

dprantl

If we can get all 928 model years involved with the new ones, the price will be significantly lower. I believe that's why the question was asked.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

ROG100

Dan,
I agree that they will fit the earlier cars.
Much bigger market.

Were their attachement points added to the 91?

Roger

terry gt

My 91GT has foam on the liners / no gap on the outside lip ,and I think additional mount points. They were full of water/dirt and falling apart . Terry

Jim M.

I hope this will help; below are pictures of my stock liner showing the six attachment points on the inner wall and top. All pics are of the LH W/W the RH mounts are similiar. Not sure if they are exact though, YMMV. Points 1-3 are the side attachment points and 4-6 are the top. My liners were deteriorated enough that I couldn't get good pictures of the front or rear mounting, but I installed the 87-89 front and rear splash shields that show the stock mounting locations. The upper mounts on my GTS drop down to allow for the foam sound deadener. You can see one of the drop down mounts in the last picture.

First pic is the liner, 2nd is the wheel well, 3rd is the front splash shield from the earlier S4's and last pic is the rear splash shield. Both the front and rear splash shields use the stock mounting locations.

Jerry Feather

Thanks ,Jim ,for those pictures. Now I am getting a much better picture of what the mounting of these liners will require and more importantly, just what size and shape they will have to be to work in all the cars. All, that is unless there is something or much different with the cars before S4. Anyone have an idea about how, for example, liners made to fit the S4 might fit any or all of the earlier cars? On the outside I expect that the fender/body area and the wheel arch is the same on all of them, but I wonder about the inside. I also wonder if there is really any market with the early car guys or gals.

I am going to cut and weld up some or most of the blow oven frame this weekend and then I will be able to order the aluminum liner pieces to be cut and bent. Then maybe thanksgiving weekend I can work on that phase of the oven. Phase three will then be to weld up the structure around the liner of the oven which will help hold the pressure of the blow. Phase 4 will be to mount the heat coils and wire them with controls and such, and then phase five will be to put an outer cover around the liner to hold the heat and insulation in.

Finally I am going to put the thing on casters so I can move it around since it is going to be pretty heavy. Actually I will probably put the casters on it this weekend so it will be easier to move around the work on.

I did some more measuring tonight and have kind of decided to make the liners 6 inches above the top of the wheel arch. That will make them about 21 inches from the bottom front and rear; and then they will be about 31 inches front to back.

OH, I also found some automotive fasteners that I can use to hold the outside to the inside and which can be pulled to release and then used again multiple times. I ordered 250 of them. They should be here right after Thanksgiving weekend.

Stay in touch.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

S4ordie

Roger - Greg B. measured my new GTS liners and I have the same issue. The RH liner will fit well adn snug up to the fender lip. The LH liner appears to be too narrow and will fit poorly.

Curious to hear what Porsche has to say. I need to contact the Porsche paint/body shop that is doing my car to let them know of the discrepancy.

Thanks

khalloudy

Based on the pics by Jim, it looks like the 91+ Liners would fit in the 87+ cars (and possibly the pre 87). They will have to be attached only to the front and rear mounting points as the pre 91 do not have the top and side attachment points. The questions is would leaving the sides and top unbolted cause any issues? and if we will have to attach them somehow, can it be done without drilling? Those areas see a lot of water, slat and other environmental effects which could cause corrosion in the body which is not needed.

Jerry Feather

Hi Khaled:

Those are very good points and questions. I am addressing those with the new liners that I am developing for these cars. What I expect is that the liners I am working on will be able to be fastened to the GTS top mounting points with some kind of connecting piece rather than directly to them as with the originals which I gather do not facten there very well.

The inner half of my new liners will mount to the inside surface of the GTS , probably in the same points now used which are unfortunately drill right into the frame rail component of the unibody. What I am looking for is some kind of way to fasten these new liners just to the bottom flange on the body in that location rather than drilling into that rail. I'm not sure what it will be yet. It may end up being a hole drilled in that lower flange, but that will be better than drilling right into the rail, I think.

Next I think the liners will be mounted front and rear to the existing mounting points which I think are also in the early cars. This will stabalize the whole assembly sufficiently to eliminate problems with aerodynamics that might want to blow them out in some way.

Then when the outer half of the liner is fastened in it may get fastened to the front and rear points in the cars now and then riveted together with the fasteners I mentions above with the outer half loaded against the inner part of the fender so that friction will help stabilize the whole unit adequately.

I am open to any better ideas.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

Jerry Feather

Wheel Well Liner Progress Report---

Yesterday I was able to cut all the pieces of angle iron for the basic frame/stand of the blow-oven that I have designed for this project. I clamped the top perimeter to my welding table and welded it up. It looks great. Then later today I hope to lay out the legs/stand part of this oven and weld them together; and then will weld them to the top perimeter and then put the casters on it.

It may have to stay that way for a little while because it is going to be very heavy, so I may need help to turn it over.

If I get that much done later today I'll be able to measure for and order the 1/8 inch aluminum sheet I am going to use for the oven chamber. I'll have it cut and bent in a press brake to my exact angles and then bring it home and weld it together.

After the liner is welded I'll start fitting angle iron around it to weld to the frame beneath the chamber for support to hold lthe air pressure I am going to use to blow these liners.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

Jerry Feather

Report!!!

I have to say that I am a little behind what I predicted last time. I didn't get the legs/stand welded up, but I did get it cut out and the ends beveled for the angled welds. I got one pair of lege welded last nite and set the other two up and will weld them shortly this evening. I probably wont get the aluminun ordered until after Thanksgiving, so I wont be making much progress on the blow-oven over the holiday. I have a two day trip to CA to make anyway, so that will probably work out fine.

What happened was the I got distracted because of a major mistake I was making in the Hatch Latch Liner project that I thought was winding down. I had formed a bunch of the liner bodies and then when I finally got the development along far enough to fit the prototype in the car it would not fit. Trying to force the male latch into the female was like it was hitting a block of steel and it was just because the liner body was too tight.

I had to make the male die over and will end up throwing out quite a few of the bodies I had already formed. Now I have 6 bodies formed with the new die and will see if the new prototype will fit before I get many more formed.

I also found that all the ones I had formed were also slightly canted. Almost not enough not to be able so see, but I thought I kind of noticed it a few times. I was just trying to ignor it, I guess. Anyway in the course of reassembling the forming machine I discovered that the cant was noticable with the new die, so I checked it out and found that where I had used 4 washers for shims I had used one that was a few thousandths thicker than the others, so I replaced them all with some that miked the same. Now it seems to be forming straight.

I also adjusted the temperature upward and not the bodies are forming a little thicker. Who would have guessed?

I also made some adjustments in the trimming die for the top perimeter and that is going to allow a little better fit also.

Progress is defined as movement in any direction, I guess.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

Tony

I havent looked at the liners in detail from one model year to the next but on the surface you have to admit, the shape of the car hasn't changed much except for the GTS rear quarters and the GT's rolled rear fender lips. I don't see why a single liner cant be made with all model year holes /shapes represented. The plastic would be thinner where the holes are.....you would simply "punch" out the hole you needed to mount the liner in your model year car?

Even the shape can be accommodated. The plastic could be scored or have a demarcation line locating where to cut for each model year?

Would be nice to have a cheap more durable alternative...Ive done a pretty good job over the years with sheet metal and rivets holding them to form but thats getting old.

Jerry Feather

Hi Tony:

It looks like we are thinking very much along the same lines. In fact the idea of "punching" the holes out for different fit is going to be a necessary step in installing these two part liners and will also allow essentially for the same two halves to be fit to narrower or wider wheel wells.

There will be a limit in the ability to fit cars with flared wheel arches, depending on just how they are flared and how much.

In addition I am going to make the form for the outer half of the liners so it can be adjusted, maybe up to an inch or more, to allow the outer half of the liners to be formed a little wider for the GTS cars, and then final fit will be with the placement in the car before punching out the holes to connect the two halves.

I got the basic blow oven frame welded up last nite and now need to put the casters on it so I can turn it over and start on its inside chamber.

Thanks for your interest.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

ROG100

I have another fender liner (RH) going back to Porsche for a warranty refund today.
They acknowledged that there is a problem and that it is with the technical department in Germany - so far so good. It will be nice to have another source as well from Jerry.

Out of interest we have technical queries for the fender liner, 928 Sports Steering Wheel and 90 to 95 window/sunroof control unit currently with Porsche.
If Porsche has forgotten the 928 we are doing what ever we can to remind them it is alive and kicking and that they need to get there act together 8>)