Chuck Z

Any updates regarding this project?

I noticed (heard it on test drive) my 19" tires (295s on an 11" wheel 62ET) are rubbing on the very bottom front inside corner edge of the left rear wheel. It is the stock GTS liner but it does not tightly contour to the steel inner fender of the car's body causing the tire to rub. Right side is fine with no clearance issues as it conforms tightly to the body contour of the car.

I'm going out to the garage now to see if there is any adjustment forward to get it to conform more to the lower front edge of the steel inner liner.

My suggestion for this project is to make sure the reproduction parts conform to the body of the car at very tight tolerances to make sure there are no rubbing issues for guys who want to got to larger wheels/tires.

I'll also take a few snaps of the problem area and post later.

Rob Edwards

Chuck-

Just for the sake of completeness, is that with the stock 38mm spacer, or a narrower H&R spacer. No such thing as too much information...

Chuck Z

It is with the stock 38mm spacer still in place.

I resolved the issue with a heat gun, a 2x4, a piece of aluminum conformed to the inside curve of the fender liner and a clamp. I heated the liner up, rubbed it into the corner with the edge of the 2x4, reheated the liner again and clamped the aluminum between the pinch rail and the fender liner and let it cool. Put the tire back on and I've now got more room on the left side than I do on the right and more than enough room my 32mm spacer will require.

ROG100

My technical "sqawk" with Porsche on this issue resulted in the technical department stating that the liner is supposed to be 25mm shy of the outside lip of the fender on the GTS. They said this was on the drawing.
Already responded with "that's a load of crap" in polite language.
Also attached pictures from my own GTS showing that the liner fits into the lip of the fender.

Chuck,
Any chance of pictures from your left rear fender as well to show that my car is not an anomally - please?
Roger

PS: Love the wheels.

worf928

I pulled a left rear liner out of a '91 the other day and just barely was able to get it re-installed in mostly one piece.

So..... I'm thinking now that a new piece that fits both would be pretty trick. Not a problem if I have to trim an edge to get it to fit in a non-GTS.

Jerry Feather

Hi All:

Just so you know that I haven't abandoned the new wheel well liner project I will bring you up to date. I got the basic blow oven frame welded up and mounted on casters so I can move it around. Then I now have the aluminum oven liner material cut and bent ready to be placed in the frame and welded up. I may get to that this weekend, at least tack welding it together so I can have my welding expert finish it up.

Next will be welding up a framework outside of and around the oven liner so it will be able to hold the air pressure that will be used to blow the liners.

I am also working with Gary Knox who has been getting me some measurements and patterns of the GTS and S4 wheel well openings so I can begin to develop the forms for each of the liners. I already have some material to make the forms with, so that might go pretty quickly, There is a lot of hand work in doing the forms so "quickly" is only a relative term.

While I have a little cash left over from christmas shopping I think I will buy about 6 sheets of plastic and have it cut to size so I can have the material ready when I am ready to blow.

I'll try to keep you up to date as I try to make haste slowly.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

S4ordie

Jerry - Thanks for the update. I am curious about the anomaly with the left rear GTS liner being too narrow. See Roger's comments above. Is this being taken into consideration?

Thanks for the extended efforts on this project.

Gary Knox

From Roger's experience, mine with the '94 OE liners, etc. it really appears that some/many of the liners were actually designed to fit the '91 S4's, and when they had some left over (??), they put them in GTS's. The measurement I made for Jerry indicates the "depth" from edge of fender to the inner panel of the body on my '89 S4 is 13", while the measurement in the identical location on the GTS is 14". Guess what - that 1" is 25.4 mm, 2.54 cm, or exactly the difference that Roger measured!! WE WANT LINERS THAT FIT!!! - Ha. (But Zuffenhausen isn't really interested in that any more, now that they have the Panamera et al to peddle.)

Merry Christmas, and thanks Jerry for pursuing this.

Gary Knox

pcar928fan

Great work guys!

Jerry Feather

Hi Dan and Gary:

I took the day off today, but am going to spend the day tomorrow cooking and forming plastic and glueing some of it for the Hatch Latch Liners. I am also going to work on the cutting and final fitting of the aluminum material for the Wheel Well Liner Blow Oven. I might even get it tacked welded together, or if not, then Sunday.

I can tell from all the previous posts that the factory liners have a real problem in a lot of areas. Material, fit and perhaps shape are all very poor.

What I have in mind is a complete new liner or liners, since I am pretty sure that at least the outer half of the liner will have to have mostly a different form from the GT or S4's. What I am going to end up with is one piece of liner that will fit the inside of any of the cars. It will be like taking a factory liner and cutting it in two about two thirds of the way out from the inner body all the way from the bottom front to the bottom rear and over the top. However my liner will have a nice continuous contour to it and a nice rounded form to most of it as it changes contour from surrounding the tire to sweeping down and next to the inner body. That part will also end up with a flange around its perimeter that will be about a half inch tall except in places where I am going to use it for mounting. I will leave it wider there as needed. This inner liner will cover about two thirds of the inside of the wheel well.

Then, for the outside "half" of the liner there will be a mating part much the same except with the wheel opening in it, and two different ones of these will be formed--one for the early cars and one for the wider GTS cars. This is the part that Gary is helping me with on the measurements and patterns off his GTS which I will use for the form for the GTS liner. This half will fasten to the inner half with push to snap fasteners and perhaps a couple of screws into original mounting points front and rear, or some kind of mounting point made out of plastic and fastened to the car to fastren to.

(This may all be redundent, but it helps me to write about it because it exercises the images in my mind when I do.)

I don't think there is going to be any need to trim any liner to fit any car, if I can get the forms right. In fact I will adjust the forms until they fit like I think you all want and like I will want. In fact any trimming will have the tendency to destroy some of the quality that will be inherent in these liners. I think these liners will fit quite snugly up against the inside of the outer body so there will not be any tendency for rubbing.

Like many other things I have created and a few I have attempted, I have not done this exact project before and my expectations are based on a little experience and a lot of intuition. I think my overall success rate is, however, high enought to warrant this effort and expense. Bear with me.

S4ordie

Thanks Jerry for the extended efforts on this project. The fender liners are a needed part for our cars. Looking forward to the final product.

ROG100

"I think these liners will fit quite snugly up against the inside of the outer body so there will not be any tendency for rubbing."

Jerry,
From your statement I assume you will not be adding foam to the top of the liner?
Roger

Jerry Feather

Hi Roger:

The short answer about the foam is "no, no foam planned." When we were talking about the sound deadening aspect of these liners I began to think about covering the inside half of the liner (the part between the liner and the inner car body) and someone, maybe you, suggested that I forget that and keep it simple. So, I haven't given much thought to that except to the extent that some allowance be made for the final user to put something like that in of their own choosing before they install them.

What do you think? What do you think is the purpose of the foam? Does it perform any structural purpose? Can that be left up the to final user/installer?

It is not too late to think about putting foam or some other sound deadening material in or on the liners--and I may offer that as an option myself in the future, if there is any demand.

The flange that I described above is actually a by-product of my earlier thoughts about insulating material--I realized it will be helpful to add regidity to the liners and also will be useful in mounting. Otherwise it is made out of what will simply be waste around the edges.

Jerry Feather, FBA Certified
S4's (6)
KGJT

Jerry Feather

P.S. Roger, I reread you question about the foam and I think I am not being clear about where I am talking about the liners fitting snuggly against the car body. What I am trying to say is that the outer edge of the liner will be snug against the inside perimeter of the wheel opening. From that point the liner will curve upward (or outward) and away from the outer car body to where it is parallel to the tread of the tire and about 6 inches or so away from the tire. In that area the space above the liner and below the car body will have room for just about any kind of foam that someone might want. The only area that will not be suitable or maybe even available for foam or other material is the part that will be flush against the outer car body around the wheel opening for about two or three inches away from the opening, at least in the top area. Does that help? JF

Chuck Schreiber

Jerry,

This sounds great!!

Thanks for all the efforts! I've avoided taking mine out for the shear fact that if I do, they will crumble to pieces.