Leon Speed

Hmmm...in what year were cup wheels introduced?

Vilhuer

All I can say is don't believe everything you read from magazines. Want one example, just take a look at those wheels. Are they original for the car? Did Porsche design Cup I wheels back in '87-88 and then only used them in this one car until 1991? Did they have Mille Miglia replica wheels made years before actual Cup I wheels?

Another example is rollbars. They are from 928 Club Sport as are brakes it seems. Now whats so special about CS rollbars and brakes? Absolutely nothing compared to normal S4 stuff.

This kind of hype is meant to make it look so special when infact its not and those parts which are somewhat special all seem to be aftermarket stuff available at the time. Something which factory would not use.

More proof of bogus claims concerning this same "GTE" can be found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...28-s4-gte.html

White Lightnin'

I don't know if anyone outside of Porsche R&D would know the answer to that. I do know that a major part of a design experiment like what the GTE is purported to be is a feasibility study.

On the subject of wheels... think about the Design 90 wheel. It actually debuted in 1988 as the Club Sport wheel. But since the CS was built specifically for high performance, it wasn't feasible to use the lightweight, high performance CS wheel on all 928s... so the 'production D90' wheel is a more realistic mass-production item (heavier and narrower) and able to be applied to more models than just the 928 (944S2).

So, in this light -it stands to reason that Cup I wheels did exist perhaps years before they were offered as a mass-production item. Think about it... 'Cup' items and cars are usually factory race cars and engineering platforms prior to being offered to the public. I seem to recall the 911 Club Sport race car existed 1-2 years before it was available to buy publicly.

Racing has always been one of Porsche's testing methods. This method works out parts that are eventually put into their production cars... and some that never will.

Vilhuer

Cup I wheels were first used in racing in 964 Cup cars which didn't exist in '87-88. Besides wheels in "GTE" are replica wheels made by Mille Miglia. That alone is proof factory didn't have anything to do with them.

White Lightnin'

The factory didn't make the wheels that are on my car either... but it made my car..........

People change wheels.

bronto

And how much is your car worth?

I think the point here is that there is an amazing lack of physical evidence that it was a factory exercise, or even a factory sponsored exercise. You would think that if it was, there would be at least of patina of authenticity on the physical vehicle itself. Basically what he's got is a piece of paper. The car may very well be authentic. But if it is authentic, and yet there's nothing on the car that you couldn't do yourself with 3rd party products, how special is it, really?

White Lightnin'

It is worth the same as anybody else's POS through megabuck dream car... only what someone is willing to spend to buy it.

Sure, there is reasonable doubt for both sides of the argument... and that's where it will stay. Neither side of this debate has 100% proof to defend their allegations. Perhaps they don't have to.

Concours purists insist on having their car being 100% as it left the factory... the PORSCHE factory. So, if this was an exercise farmed out to a specialty company like Kremer (who, at the time was heavily involved in the factory race program... but that's another situation)... it would still not be 100% Porsche and they would debunk it.

However it cannot be disputed that over the years, Porsche has had strong ties (and some loose ones) with specialty companies like Abarth, Kremer, Koenig, Ruf, Rinnspeed, Strosek and others. If Porsche had any part in a special vehicle... then where the vehicle was finished is of no concern. Also, despite the historic tendency of Porsche destroying all of its prototypes... there are several still in existence and have NEVER been disputed -even though they don't have 'production' parts on them.

There is a prototype 911 (typ 901, No. 7) in the June '09 Excellence that proves some of them survived.

It really is a glass half full/half empty thing here: I choose to believe until proven otherwise, whereas yourself and others choose to doubt and disbelieve until proven 100% otherwise. The choice is ultimately our own to make.

But hey, this has gone waaaaaayyyy OT.


Here's another picture of Chuck's car (you know, the one this thread is about!)

Vilhuer

So they do and add bodykits and silly model names too.

White Lightnin'

And some people find flaws and fault with other peoples' cars because of their own insecurities... to each their own.

Vilhuer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

White Lightnin'

"Ad hominem"...

I'm glad to know that your illogical debate tactic actually has a name... thanks!