Leon Speed

Bill,

We tried pretty hard, let's say about as hard as we dared without braking anything. But as said above, even without plugs and starter, still no movement. We didn't check the flexplate because the car is on the street, no brigde, and some basic tools. I know, we're softies So it was either hauling it off to a rent-a-garage or directly to a shop.

Bill Ball

Hi Aryan: NO movement despite more than 40 ft-lbs of effort (which isn't much)? With the plugs out it should take far less effort than that. Uhoh.

Bertrand Daoust

Before releasing the pressure on mine (+/- 4mm), I remember that the motor was quite hard to turn by hand (with the plugs in). And easier after.

Like Bill said, you should take a look at the flex plate first.

86'928S MeteorGrey

Mine acted EXACTLY as yours does at this point. When pressure was released from the flexplate, it did run a lot better. However, the damage was already done. DON'T drive it or start it any more until the axial play is checked. If the crank is indeed striking the block, the thrust bearing is gone. Mine was completely gone with 4 times the allowed tollerance. There were no noticable flakes in my oil......

paragoensia

Oh wow, have I been sleeping! I never had any notifications in my email so I thought everyone had forgotten about this thread. Thanks for all the replies though and sorry I didn't reply sooner.

The story continues:

I finally saved enough money , last week I took the car to the shop to have it looked at. After a day or so they gave me a call that the starter was broken. Yes, the exact same starter that was tested by them before, you know, the one that supposed to be working properly. But hey, everyone makes mistakes. They didn't test it themselves but took it to a Bosch dealer (I'm sure because the first time I picked it up it was not in the garage but at the Bosch dealers place). But what can you do about it....so I got this one refurbished. I was very happy when they told me I could pick it up Friday afternoon. Half way to the garage my phone rang... They told me that the car started fine....BUT ONLY WHEN COLD!!! As soon as it got warm it didn't start anymore. But I had nothing to worry about, it would only be some bad wires or something. This morning they called me to tell me they tested the wiring and there was nothing wrong but when the car got warm the engine wouldn't turn over. So they suspected ( I have some translation problems here) the crankshaft bearing (NL:krukas lager). So if I understood everything right a TBF. He told me I could drive the car home this afternoon. After a few hours and a few glances at the forum I concluded that driving the car home could only damage more. So I called him back to tell him I would pick it up tomorrow with a truck. I also asked him if he had checked the condition of the flexplate (NL:flexplaat?). But, because I only knew the English word he didn't understand what I was talking about. So ....the conclusion: I am €900,- poorer and still have a broken car. Nobody even looked at the flexplate...

So I'm still thinking about the next step. Should I expect this engine to be scrap? Or should I take it to (another) shop to have the flexplate looked at? Or maybe just forget about it and close my eyes whenever I hear a 928 coming down the street?

Thanks for the advice,
Tim

Mrmerlin

get the car to place where you can jack it up. A lift would be better remove the lower bell housing and inspect the flexplate connection to the flywheel, after you do this then release the flex bolt clamp this should then be followed by checking the thrust bearing play.
New is .004in. and max .016in. you can convert this to metric .
Anyway dont run the engine anymore till this is done, the engine may already be toast but then again it may be able to be saved but you wont know for sure until its checked

Leon Speed

Ow sorry to hear this Tim. Good idea to check the end play. You will need a dial gauge. A good write up is here https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...pictorial.html

Another thing to check is for metal particles in the oil. Mrmerli'n's trick is to get a piece of lamp cord and stick it into the dipstick tube and then drip the oil onto a black piece of cardboard, look at the oil in the sun for metallic particles. Or take off the oil filter and cut it open (the oil will need to be drained first).

Mrmerlin

the lamp cord is the easiest thing to do, the reason to not use the dipstick is that it shaves small particles of the tube off every time you put it in / pull it out

Alan

Nothing you have said about the electrical system suggests anything is wrong or ever was wrong- I think you should be demanding you money back from whoever charged you 900 euros for nothing!!

86'928S MeteorGrey

Shops are notoriously bad at working on 928s unless you find one that specializes in them. I don't know what kind of laws exist there, but I too would be asking for a refund for the impropper diagnostics and fraudulent repair work performed.

Dropping the exhaust is pretty simple on these cars. 6 bolts/nuts holding the exhaust manifolds to the down tubes. One pipe fitting on the stainless tube running to the cats. O2 sensor should not need to be disconnected. Carefully lower the front of the exhaust down and brace with a jackstand. Remove the 2 rear-most bolts on the flexplate/clutch cover. Bolt the exhaust back up. Leave these two bolts out, and you can forever check your axial endplay without dropping the exhaust. Follow WSM or Rennlist writeup to check the endplay.

If the axial (fore-aft) endplay is out-of-limits, then I'd call the outfit that "inspected" your car prior to purchase... They missed a major problem. Maybe they will have a solution to their mistake...I feel your pain.....

If the endplay is within limits, report back here and we will go from there. Praying for the best...


If you can't wrench on this car yourself, you need to be prepared to spend big money to make it right and keep it right. It's just the nature of these cars. If you don't have deep pockets, I suggest learning to wrench ASAP.

Landseer

Agreed, and for therapy, buy a couple more. You'll get good at it, with practice.

paragoensia

Hi there!

Thanks for al the replies! And the best thing is....all this advice didn't cost me anything. So if you are ever in Amsterdam I'll show you around and buy you a beer. And if you happen to be female, pretty and under 30 I also offer you a place to sleep.

And now about the car... I phoned around, but nobody told me what I wanted to hear (or anything near it for that matter). One shop said he could only check by taking the engine out....the other one spoke about checking the oil for metal but didn't get much further than that. So I decided to have a talk with the mechanic and the owner of the shop where the car is located now. I always take it there because they had done some great work on my 924 in the past and because after my phone calls this afternoon I didn't find any alternative. I took my laptop and showed them the "Crank Endplay Check Pictorial" and asked them if they could measure the endplay this way. They say they can. We also had a good talk about the price and came to a reasonable agreement, of course it will still cost me an arm and a leg but I will finally have a proper diagnose. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed (believe me, that's hard trying to type a post).

I'll keep you updated....Thanks again!

Landseer

Good, but should not cost you much to measure.

Leave front belts on.

Drop exhaust and bell housing, undo clamp.

Lever the crank fore / aft, set the tool, do it again, make the measurement.

We are talking about 2 hours max. shop time.

paragoensia

Hi Everybody,

So.....there finally is a verdict...

The flexplate is pretty warped....And there is 3 mm of play at the front pulley. So the engine is pretty f*&^$& up. It's not quite the measurements I asked them to do....but I guess it tells me enough. It's game over for now. My next step will be finding a storage for the car, work...work...work....and maybe get the bearings fixed when I have the money.

Thanks for all the help....and I will keep you updated when there's any progression.

Tim
('89 928 S4 ornament)

Mrmerlin

Well sorry the hear the news, it sounds like you might have a new coffee table, so it would be best to just find another complete engine.
The one you have is going to be filled with metal that includes the lifters and the oil cooler.
Good luck finding another engine