shell nitrogen gas
03-13-2009, 06:35 PM
#1
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shell nitrogen gas
Anyone see the new shell gas commercial that states the nitrogen additive in thier gas will not only clean but protect the engine internals. Any thoughts on this?
03-13-2009, 06:39 PM
#2
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clean engine internals? brother!
maybe less residue on the back of valves and valve stems, but thats all it really touches.
as far as fuel lines and injectors, maybe its their take on techroline.
mk
maybe less residue on the back of valves and valve stems, but thats all it really touches.
as far as fuel lines and injectors, maybe its their take on techroline.
mk
03-13-2009, 06:48 PM
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I've seen the commercial, other than that, I know nothing about it. Not to hijack the thread but I've been meaning to ask if all gas additives are basically the same or if people have any strong opinions about which gas brand has the best additives.
03-13-2009, 10:20 PM
#4
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I'm not sure how they plan to keep nitrogen (typically a gas at 'normal' temps) dissolved in gasoline (typically a liquid when stored at normal temps.) If they plan on diluting, er, I mean injecting/blending/mixing it at the nozzle and charging gasoline prices for the foamy fuel that's sold by volume... Grab on to your socks! Nitrogen is inert with no energy value whatsoever. About 78% of every breath you take is nitrogen. Are they just going to aerate the fuel going in so they can recover gasoline valops back into the underground tanks? Inquiring minds want to know!
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03-14-2009, 02:15 AM
#8
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Techron was and is a worthless sales gimmick. Try some Berryman's B-12 if you're serious about cleaning your fuel system from the inside.
I'm guessing this nitrogen thing amounts to just blowing air up your gas.
I'm guessing this nitrogen thing amounts to just blowing air up your gas.
03-14-2009, 04:04 AM
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Let me guess. Its the same gas they are adding to golf club heads now....and the same gas that the majority of our atmosphere is made up off.
Inert, non flammible gas....in your gasoline. They dont advertise that.
They are doing anything for any business these days
Inert, non flammible gas....in your gasoline. They dont advertise that.
They are doing anything for any business these days
03-14-2009, 03:18 PM
#10
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http://www.examiner.com/x-4824-Tampa...iched-gasoline has a good overview of the technology and an assessment.
in short:
The nitrogen molecule is attached to the cleaning agent, and helps create more stable conditions at higher temperatures thus extending the life of detergent in your motor. This nitrogen additive in the detergent prevents the mixture from becoming a victim of thermal breakdown under heavy loads, which would reduce the effects of the cleaning agent. Mixing that detergent with nitrogen, the cleansing agent does not burn off. Nitrogen is an inert gas that doesn't burn, which is how the life of detergent is extended. (see here for more information) According to Shell, the nitrogen enriched fuel uses a “fluid medium” that "acts like water", creating a protection barrier while washing away the detergent and gunk into the cylinder where it is destroyed during combustion. (see here for more information)
The Bad
It is possible that nitrogen enriched fuels will harm your forced induction vehicle if is tuned to run 90-100% injector cycle according to various street tuning experts. Some say that the minimum octane rating will still be the same, therefore no ECU adjustment will occur and it is perfectly okay to use this fuel. If the majority is correct, this fuel could cause lean conditions and your ECU will want to increase injector duty cycle to make up for non-flammable gas. If you are already running your maximum injector cycle and don't have enough to compensate for the change, a lean condition could possibly occur. Make sure you have plenty of injector duty left and keep an eye on your AFR's while running this fuel until further evidence is released confirming the science behind this new fuel.
Also, Shell's lack of in-depth press release is creating negative buzz on the forums. Most forum users agree this is just another marketing tactic to help boost sales. Hopefully, a third party labratory will release some spectrometer readings to figure out exactly what is in this stuff would settle any discrepencies.
caviat emptor. could lead to a class action suit if it really screws something up, but that could take years. meantime, you'd be riding the bus.
in short:
The nitrogen molecule is attached to the cleaning agent, and helps create more stable conditions at higher temperatures thus extending the life of detergent in your motor. This nitrogen additive in the detergent prevents the mixture from becoming a victim of thermal breakdown under heavy loads, which would reduce the effects of the cleaning agent. Mixing that detergent with nitrogen, the cleansing agent does not burn off. Nitrogen is an inert gas that doesn't burn, which is how the life of detergent is extended. (see here for more information) According to Shell, the nitrogen enriched fuel uses a “fluid medium” that "acts like water", creating a protection barrier while washing away the detergent and gunk into the cylinder where it is destroyed during combustion. (see here for more information)
The Bad
It is possible that nitrogen enriched fuels will harm your forced induction vehicle if is tuned to run 90-100% injector cycle according to various street tuning experts. Some say that the minimum octane rating will still be the same, therefore no ECU adjustment will occur and it is perfectly okay to use this fuel. If the majority is correct, this fuel could cause lean conditions and your ECU will want to increase injector duty cycle to make up for non-flammable gas. If you are already running your maximum injector cycle and don't have enough to compensate for the change, a lean condition could possibly occur. Make sure you have plenty of injector duty left and keep an eye on your AFR's while running this fuel until further evidence is released confirming the science behind this new fuel.
Also, Shell's lack of in-depth press release is creating negative buzz on the forums. Most forum users agree this is just another marketing tactic to help boost sales. Hopefully, a third party labratory will release some spectrometer readings to figure out exactly what is in this stuff would settle any discrepencies.
caviat emptor. could lead to a class action suit if it really screws something up, but that could take years. meantime, you'd be riding the bus.
03-23-2009, 05:29 PM
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03-23-2009, 05:51 PM
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We bought my wife a new 09 Jeep Patriot and it has Nitrogen in the tyres..............does Shell have a second compressor at their gas stations now?
03-23-2009, 07:01 PM
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So in a way, its just like ethanol. Only now since everyone is at least 10% ethanol, not only are you paying for 90% gas, but your paying more for even less gas! And just like ethanol, it hurts fuel economy! So youre paying even more for even less gas that wont even last you as long!
03-23-2009, 07:20 PM
#15
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Precisely... whatever it was you said, anyway.
I watched the Shell TV commercial for the new fuel additive. The verbal claims are very carefully crafted. They essentially claim that their new additive cleans up deposits left by other fuels that don't clean as well. Language stolen from FDA test submissions, where a candidate product only needs to 'work' to pass the basic 'does it work?' test. Doesn't need to work any better than anything else on the market. How many folks would pony up the extra dollars-per-dose for Celebrex, if they knew that generic ibuprofin works better, way fewer side effects, for pennies per dose? So does it work as well as whatever they were using before, improve mileage, cost less? How about some steam injection once in a while to temp-shock those nasty deposits and leave the combustion chambers and valves looking brand new? Oooops! No way to make big money marketing a water technology.
I like out-of-state fuels in my car. Mileage improves at least 10% once I get all the "oxygenated" fuel worked out of the tank. So now I need to add nitrogen, inert, and hope to get some other benefit from it? How about "fewer emissions grams per pound of fuel", a favorite here, instead of a much more pragmatic "fewer emissions per mile driven".
Let me just hop off the soapbox here and get back to work.
I watched the Shell TV commercial for the new fuel additive. The verbal claims are very carefully crafted. They essentially claim that their new additive cleans up deposits left by other fuels that don't clean as well. Language stolen from FDA test submissions, where a candidate product only needs to 'work' to pass the basic 'does it work?' test. Doesn't need to work any better than anything else on the market. How many folks would pony up the extra dollars-per-dose for Celebrex, if they knew that generic ibuprofin works better, way fewer side effects, for pennies per dose? So does it work as well as whatever they were using before, improve mileage, cost less? How about some steam injection once in a while to temp-shock those nasty deposits and leave the combustion chambers and valves looking brand new? Oooops! No way to make big money marketing a water technology.
I like out-of-state fuels in my car. Mileage improves at least 10% once I get all the "oxygenated" fuel worked out of the tank. So now I need to add nitrogen, inert, and hope to get some other benefit from it? How about "fewer emissions grams per pound of fuel", a favorite here, instead of a much more pragmatic "fewer emissions per mile driven".
Let me just hop off the soapbox here and get back to work.