Don Carter

Found more info on a link that was on the previously posted page. It's kindof hokey but has lots of videos explaining why new fuels are needed. Still not real technical, but if you want more info, it's there...

I have a couple of emails out to folks within Shell to see if there's any more technical info I can post here.

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa...e_experts.html

docmirror

Ok, so every 50k miles put a tank of:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Texaco
MFA Oil Co.
Conoco
Phillips 66
76
Entec Stations
Shell
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Turkey Hill Minit Markets
Mileage Stations
Chevron Canada
Shell Canada
Petro-Canada
Sunoco Canada

fuel in for cleaning. Job done.

UmmYeahOk

I think the testing is flawed. Are you saying they test two different fuels on the same exact car using the same exact engine? is the shell oil used first or seond? and how do we know that the shell oil didnt lead to the breakdown of the engine rather than the regular oil?

I like the testing they did in the castrol oil commercial. Two different cars, same make,model,engine. Sure one of the engines could of been accidentally manufactured with a flaw, but at least by being kept separate we knew what oil damaged the car. However I suppose an additional Shell-like study should have been made in case theres some sort of reaction between the two when mixed that would cause damage. I mean, really, I bet bleach and dawn soap would clean the engine good... ...but how odd would it be is techron mixed with V-power did exactly that.

First of all, Shell, or should I say "Royal Dutch Shell" is not even an american company. So like with Toyota, they may have local plants, and american employees, but if youre a "buy american" nut, dont buy from Shell (then again, with eveyone owning a porsche, this may not be an issue.)

Second, Shell has always been the most expensive gas, at least here anyway. The only people who would ever charge more, were ma and pa stations that couldnt afford to go lower. QT, Racetrack, Diamond Shamrock/Valero and of course all those store brands. 5% of $2 is just a penny, so pretty much the shell card is useless, especially when most stations charge several pennies less. You will never come out ahead. $4/gal= 2 cents saved with card.

True, if it were there would millions of lawsuits out there. Sure, there are some vehicles out there that can run on 100% ethanol... ...but most would be completely destroyed from it. Some stations say "contains 10%" others just say "contains ethanol." Wish I knew how much though

Does anyone here know if theres still a gas station in TX that doesnt put ethanol in their tanks? or is it mandatory now?

I hate the whole idea of ethanol. I have to pay more for less gas. And on top of that food costs rise too thanks to the increased demand. Our entire food industry is based on that plant! Ignore normal stuff like corn mill, corn syrup, bread products and cooking oil. Anything thats a meat is effected since its used as animal feed, which also means dairy products go up too!

Does it even help the environment (more so than normal gas)? he earth goes through natural heating up, cooling off stages. If ice were increasing, people would claim CO2 gases cause that too. We dont have to worry for thousand, possibly hundreds of thousand years from now. At which point humans will have evolved back into hairy mindless apes, due to the fact that intelligent couples dont want children thanks to all the morons out there that cant even take care of themself, but that didnt see to stop them from procreating.

docmirror

We're talking about fuels, not oil. An engine with a split fuel system has two(or more) different runners to a set of cylinders with separate fuel delivery. Think one bank of a V8 running standard fuel, and the opposite bank running the test fuel.

5% of $2 is a dime, not a penny.

There are gas stations in TX that sell non-Eth gas. They are rare. You will not find them in Dallas, Tarrant, Houston, or El Paso counties. You have to go outside those counties, and ask. When you ask, the gas jockey attendant will not know what you're talking about. It's up to you to test each product for the presences of Ethanol.

It does not help the environment.

RKD in OKC

Gas stations in OKC advertise "Alcohol Free Gas" with big banners. Several months ago a local TV station did a news exposé about Ethanol costing more, not really being "better for the environment," AND lowering gas mileage.

ew928

Ethanol. It does the gas companies, gas tax collections and the farm lobby good.

Interesting point about split fuel on one engine.
What if the crap store brand gas (I actually bought Turkey Hill store gas once. Thought that was funny)
cleaned out the valves and injectors and then the test vehicle got switched to the Fancy gas and it ran better and got better mileage and power. Wasn't running so good with the generic cheap gas cause it was cleaning out the fuel delivery system. What if.

Seafoam was recommended to me by Doc Mohr.

Don Carter

Wow, where to start...

As doc said, we're talking gas not oil.

I was wrong about one thing, they are using V6 engines now for the testing, but the concept is the same. Each bank of cylinders fed by a seperate fuel injection system including seperate fuel tanks. Test are for 5k miles, engines broken down and inspected. Seems like solid testing to me.

"$4/gal= 2 cents saved with card." Uh...no. 5% of $4 is .20 saved per gallon. It's not an immediate savings though. It's setup to create loyalty, so it's a rebate on your next month's bill. You have to buy Shell gas 9 times a year to not have a yearly fee on the card. If you decide to buy Shell gas most of the time, it makes sense and saves 5%.

Right, Shell is a 100 year old global company traditionally co-owned by the Dutch and the British but now headquartered in London. I don't think there's really a way to buy American with gas. Exxon may be a US company, but they probably import most of their oil as Shell does.

docmirror

OK, this is all fun info, but let's get back to the OPs question. What/how is adding some kind of N2 to the fuel chain helping? All I can think of from the top of my head is increased exit temps, but that wouldn't be a function of adding N2. There are several cleaning agents that come to mind, but the only one that comes to mind with N in it is Ammonia/Ammonium (NH3, NH4). I haven't done my molecular binds but just guessing, it would be a Hydrate, which is common. That's gonna need a C and an O, so I still can't see the value.

Oh well, I'll just be another happy consumer and buy something that I know nothing about and trust the good folks at XYZ company that tells me it's good for me. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrreeeeee.

James Bailey

For what it is worth Techron detergent has nitrogen in it has for some 30 years.....the % of additive to fuel is just slightly higher than what happens when someone pees in the swimming pool.

Mike B

Thanks for the info Don...appreciate it.

ew928

Urea in da fuel cleaner?
Way OT.
Funny how they're spritzing urea into diesel exhaust to clean up the emissions.

RicerSchnitzzle

Dihydrogen Monoxide is not an issue if you dilute it with water prior to addition. You idiots need to read the MSDS or Hazmat labels before using stuff like that.

ew928

Real men don't read no lit-erat-ure.

Don Carter

Didn't have any luck tracking down more technical information on the new additive. I did get a couple of responses from some scientists I emailed, but whenever I start talking about posting info publicly on the net, people get nervous, understandably so, since corporations like to tightly control product information.

There is a brochure on it inside each station. It doesn’t have a lot more than what’s already been said and posted, but might be worth a look.

Andre Hedrick

Don't spill on PAINT! It goes to bare metal.