you dont want to change the ride hight! you should be around 110mm in front.

the tires are hitting the top of the fenders due to that 305x35 tire being so darn tall!! 26"!! anyway, that wont happen with the 295x 30s. the question really will be will the 295s be better than the 275s that have the 35 aspect ratio due to side wall flex. they might be a wash. Im going to do my first race with the 305s and see how they work. Ill post what happens via the video when you get extreme compression with the tall tire up front. Im actually playing with the fenders some more to get more room. After looking at the nobel and other racers front fender look, the stock fenders might not look too bad pulled out like I have it , with a few finishing mods.

mk

 

Looks like a lot of fun Brian, great video! No video of the spin though?

 

Looks like fun. You perhaps could use more of the track and experiment with a later apex on some of the corners but that is hard to tell just from the video....Track time is the key , getting comfortable with what the car can do.

 

Quality track time is key!

Most of the apexs are much to late as it is. He was following Paul who was just cruising around running the pace car laps, so by following those lines, you reallly cant push the car. put this video side by side with Brians video and you can see what Im talking about. many of the thunderhill apexs need to be early to get a slight drift going or for set up for the following turns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yusC...e=channel_page

Or, during a similar day in January 07, running 2:01s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj2wN...e=channel_page

Brian's Widow Video this past weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEisdE0Hk_Q

 

OK, me with minimal track time would still like to suggest that turn 11 seems to benefit from real late apexing. An instructor showed me that and I really liked the way it made the 12-13 chicane almost a straight line. But perhaps it is slower over all.

 

Mark , Must be the camera angles but your turn in seems way early I always assumed in the past that you were just protecting the corner.... Oh well I have never driven T-hill so what do I know Does make me wonder about your past understeering comments which can easily be driver induced. Given the turn in point and the line the car might be going as fast as humanly possible at that point just not as quickly as another line.

 

Let me think about that a moment..............

 

My lines are as they apear. pushing issues have really only been an issue with turn 4 and sometimes turn 5 at Laguna. with a later apex, and the speeds were are carrring, the slight push and late apex would put you in the dirt every time. Tracks may appear different when you are running 20 seconds a lap faster. the track takes on an almost totally different shape. everything changes.
However, brian's car is almost exactly the same car as mine in the 2nd video and we are running 2:01s through traffic on a cold new years weekend day. (20 seconds faster that him and the C6 vet on street tires)

Driver induced understeer is pretty obvious to detect. The understeer I have is unbalance, due to the fact the rear is so firmly planted and cant be overcome even with throttle. that becomes almost the definition of "too much understeer". generally, my 928 has always been pretty neutral, except when i put on the wing. my fastest time at one of the most turney courses in the country, Sears point, still is fastest without the wing and only the stock wing with inclination. (i.e. 1:47.9) to put this time in perspective, Mark A when he went there with Speedvision his first pro race there, ran 1:52.xx, and later 1:53s with street tires.

One proven technique around long fast hairpin turns, is an early apex hugging the apex, from the beginning, all the way around til the exit. Then, the exit is performed traditioally by letting the car run out to the birm. One of the SCCA magazines did a study of this and found that the early apex can in fact be the faster way around a turn. If you notice my approach to turn 2 at thunderhill i use this technique always. notice in the older video test day, how I run up on a more nimble car (SSF M3 with Mike Cortney driving). That day, even with traffic and cold track conditions was one of my fastest times at the thunderhill.
Another early apex turn is the fast turn 8 (sometimes called the kink at Thill) you turn in early because you are going 100mph through it. that allows the car to change direction, with a slight drift that usually puts you out to the exit birm. anyone that is not familar with thunderhill and trys a late apex, slow in fast out technique, will promply get passed going in to the following turn 9.

In general, if you look at any track, and look at videos from a slower car vs a faster car, the apexes will apear earlier.

mk

 

acutally, that is a key turn for the set up for 12/13. notice on the test day video how we are going through there. notice how the SSF M3 takes a later apex through there and almost ends up in the tire barriers on the right. its slow enough where can go a little earlier through there, and end up with the straight shot that your instructor was pointing too. Too late and it gets most into trouble with a very loose exit. Ive never had a problem with push in slow turns. only the fast, off cambered medium turns like turn 4-5 at laguna, the carrocel at sears and 3 and 6 at thunderhill. small wing changes or tire quality can change and fix that now.

mk

 

That has sure been my experience at T-hill. the first few times I ran there was in the 944. And now several times in 928's.

When I first went out in a 928 it was like i had gone to a different track. It has been two or three years since i ran the 944 there and I still get confused when I'm running in my head. I couldn't emphasize how completely different that track is when there is a 15 or 20 second difference in your lap times.

 

its really interesting if you do the the side by side video comparison. its better to use dennis' old car as you then compare steering inputs as well. just a look out the front tells only part of the story.

If you put one of my two videos with Brian's and stop mine periodically to allow them to synch up, you can see the different line and effects.

mk

 

MK
Watching the video of your old motor and setup (pre big wing I think) is closer to the setup I have.... Still 2:02 from the video is smoking fast with all that traffic, which forced some inside moves that I'm sure aren't the "ideal" line..however you did have some oversteer in 2 & 3 that I haven't had to deal with yet (other than a spin perhaps)

In the new video....your car seems much more stable...more planted with less oversteer from watching your hands.....but 2:00 is really smoking

I would say my biggest time looser is not going flat through 6-7 & slowing down too much for 8.....after that its probably 1 as the next biggest time looser since I don't have the "stones" to push the car that hard through the high speed corners! My 1st and only spin (mid 3rd gear so maybe 75mph) really woke me up

I have no illusions about my driving ability or lack thereof....my goal for the rest of this year is to learn the car and improve my driving to the point I would feel safe racing with the big boys!! Even if I don't have the wallet to win :>(

 

Cornering speeds are usually comparable you just get to the next corner much quicker in a faster high power car In some cases the luxury of high horsepower makes for a point and shoot attitude at the expense of smoothness and maintaining momentum. Charlie my point was that given the turn in point after the car is committed to a line the car might be going as fast as possible but only because of where it is not where it SHOULD BE. Yet the driver is at the limit of adhesion and the car really will not corner any harder based on where he is and where he has to go....

 

This is not nessarily true. There is a lot more to a turn than just adheasion around it. braking into the turn, for example, the corning speed (or more likely , time and then exit speed) will be highly dependent on the angle of entry, and if you get real good at trail braking that might seem like an early apex to some, you transfer more weight to the front tires that allow you to "set" the front wheels in the direction you SHOULD, or WANT to be going. after that, a monkey can usually take the car and steer it around the corner. Now, at that point, is it the fastest you can go? probably not. Depending on the set up, you might be able to get another mile per hour or so around a constant radiused turn, by pushing the car even harder and using throttle steer, if the car is neutral enough. If you got some push, the gas just makes the push worse and makes your point. When you see guys like Auberlin going around turn 4 at laguna with all sorts of motion in their hands, this is what they are doing. They are on the edge and using the throttle to keep constant acceleration out of the turn. Something that is fairly hard to do, as you have to know your car, trust the tires and be able to control it.

It all will take awhile, and then when you get in the groove, you will find subtle things that will allow you to improve every time you get on the track. I just look at my video from that test day, vs this last race, and I can see many things I wouldnt do now. However, the lap times are pretty close to the same. the difference might be that I'm easier on the transmission, tires and possibly better through traffic now, than then.

Remember, I've driven the old stock, cat clad, 79 'round this circuit to a 2:10, so i have a good handle on how to keep momentium going as well. (as well as a 1:45 in only 4th gear at Laguna Seca in a euro 4.7 )

mk

 

I think you are doing fine and have a great attitude! You will get fast in that car very soon! Heck, its your first time out in it! you will have to trust that it can do things, that right now you are a little unsure of. I still remember anderson carrying me around Willow at a 1:29 while i was following him, hearing his words, "trust the car, it can do a 1:25! ". Still, I wasnt comfortable enough and I was second guessing that the slicks felt like they were corded. they kind of were, but Im sure Mark could have jumped in this car and spanked out a 1:26, even with a problem! anyway, new car, new track, someone elses car, etc. You get the idea.

The point is, the car can do it. Your spin is just pushing beyond the both the car and your limits in that slow section of track and not pushing hard enough in other places. This will take a little while, and watching video sure seems to help.

One of the reasons the video of the test day seems to be more violent, is that the tires were older, track colder, and there was traffic. Plus, Im sure Ive improved a little in a couple of years too. actaully, that car had the wing on it. It was the first test day to figure out the pushing problem with the wing. I had built up the splitter and cut the hole in the hood and this was the successful test day! push was under control and the wing seemed to help the rear be more planted.

One of the things that will help, is early apexing and braking straight to the turn to the speed you know the car is capable of. by doing this, you give yourself a lot of safety margin if you turn in with the car too hot. if you late apex and you are still too hot into the turn, you are done and off track or worse, spun if you inisist to try and make the turn. Its all about learning the capabilities of the car.

Next, you want to see how deep you can go with braking(or without braking) again, by learning your turn in points, this will give you a safety margin by being able to simply miss the apex entirely, by braking the extra distance until you are at a speed where the car is responding. When we ride together we can do some of this, as someone did with me early on and it helped quite a bit.

I wish I could make the Feb event, but It looks like they added a Laguna day mid April. its between races, but thats ok, i could use it as a test day for our late april race.

Mk