Clutch adjustment on 2 plate'ers
09-05-2008, 12:20 AM
#16
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Thread Starter
ah ha!
I think ill make a smaller hole for scott, just so i can get a screwdriver in there. is it better to be inline with the adjuster or do you get it from in fron of the starter ring from the space around the front of the intermediate plate? Looks like you can just put a screwdriver right in there and press apart the disc from the intermediate plate but you might not be able to see the gap.
This might be an issue trying to push the adjuster back toward the flywheel, but it seems that this is never done.
mk
I think ill make a smaller hole for scott, just so i can get a screwdriver in there. is it better to be inline with the adjuster or do you get it from in fron of the starter ring from the space around the front of the intermediate plate? Looks like you can just put a screwdriver right in there and press apart the disc from the intermediate plate but you might not be able to see the gap.
This might be an issue trying to push the adjuster back toward the flywheel, but it seems that this is never done.
mk
09-05-2008, 04:00 AM
#17
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The "H" shaped pieces on the intermediate plate are designed to limit the distance the intermediate plate can travel. Since the intermediate plate only needs to move to the rear to relieve pressure on the front disc, Porsche's instructions are to move the "H" shaped pieces as far to the rear as possible, so that the plate can "float" to the rear when the clutch is released. As the front disc wears, the "H" shaped pieces get moved forward by the pressure plate pushing on the rear disc and thus the intermediate plate. If the "H" pieces are worn enough to move freely...you need a new intermediate plate.
Release problems are common with the dual disc set-up....and the unfortunate reality of the whole thing is that you can put in all new pieces and have issues. I've pulled out many, many of these suckers, the second and third time...over the years....and it sucks.
Here's what we suggest doing (or do for) our customers:
The first thing to try is to put a big stinking prybar or screwdriver through the hole in the bottom of the bell housing. Lever against the T/O arm and the hole (right alongside the pushrod), at the same
time that someone actuates the clutch pedal. When the lever goes all the way toward the rear....force the lever (with the prybar) as far back as possible (you are actually manually operating the clutch as far to the rear as possible with the prybar), while someone continues to "pump" on the clutch pedal. The tricky part is not to knock the pushrod out of the hole in the arm, while all this is going on. This will fix about 75% of the cars. It forces the clutch slave to travel slightly farther.
Replace the rubber hose with a hose that doesn't expand. The stock rubber hose "blows" up with pressure. The increased force required to release the "higher pressure" clutch makes the hose "balloon" even more. J2 Precision had custom fittings made, by Goodridge, to be able to make hoses from -5 Teflon/stainless material, that will not expand. These hoses are available through 928 International or J2 Precision. Both are on the web.
The travel is barely adequate to release the clutch in a stock application. If the little plastic bushing wears out in the clevis on the end of the adjusting rod, the clutch will not release. Make sure all of the pieces are in perfect condition and the pushrod is properly adusted. It doesn't take much, especially with a modified pressure plate, for the clutch to not release.
Remove the little rubber stop that cushions the clutch pedal when it returns to rest....this will give you additional travel on the clutch master....this allows more volume of fluid to be delivered to the clutch slave. You will need to readjust the rod that goes to the clutch master to take advantage of this additional travel. If you can't stand the slight "clunk" when the pedal returns to the stop (once the rubber is removed), remove the pedal and grind back the part that hits the rubber 2-3mm, reinstall the rubber, reassemble, and then readjust the rod.
Buy one of our triple disc Tilton clutches with a custom lightweight flywheel and quit screwing around. This fixes all....except your wallet. Also reduces the wear on the syncros by about 50%, since the discs have very little inertia (compared to the stock discs) and release much easier. The reduced wear also reduces transmission temperature. This is what both Joseph and Mark Anderson are using in their race cars. This is the only clutch that we have tried that will hold 475 and more rwhp. If you have any stock clutch pieces and think you make more than 475rwhp, then the "dream o meter" that you use to dyno your car needs to be calibrated.
Release problems are common with the dual disc set-up....and the unfortunate reality of the whole thing is that you can put in all new pieces and have issues. I've pulled out many, many of these suckers, the second and third time...over the years....and it sucks.
Here's what we suggest doing (or do for) our customers:
The first thing to try is to put a big stinking prybar or screwdriver through the hole in the bottom of the bell housing. Lever against the T/O arm and the hole (right alongside the pushrod), at the same
time that someone actuates the clutch pedal. When the lever goes all the way toward the rear....force the lever (with the prybar) as far back as possible (you are actually manually operating the clutch as far to the rear as possible with the prybar), while someone continues to "pump" on the clutch pedal. The tricky part is not to knock the pushrod out of the hole in the arm, while all this is going on. This will fix about 75% of the cars. It forces the clutch slave to travel slightly farther.
Replace the rubber hose with a hose that doesn't expand. The stock rubber hose "blows" up with pressure. The increased force required to release the "higher pressure" clutch makes the hose "balloon" even more. J2 Precision had custom fittings made, by Goodridge, to be able to make hoses from -5 Teflon/stainless material, that will not expand. These hoses are available through 928 International or J2 Precision. Both are on the web.
The travel is barely adequate to release the clutch in a stock application. If the little plastic bushing wears out in the clevis on the end of the adjusting rod, the clutch will not release. Make sure all of the pieces are in perfect condition and the pushrod is properly adusted. It doesn't take much, especially with a modified pressure plate, for the clutch to not release.
Remove the little rubber stop that cushions the clutch pedal when it returns to rest....this will give you additional travel on the clutch master....this allows more volume of fluid to be delivered to the clutch slave. You will need to readjust the rod that goes to the clutch master to take advantage of this additional travel. If you can't stand the slight "clunk" when the pedal returns to the stop (once the rubber is removed), remove the pedal and grind back the part that hits the rubber 2-3mm, reinstall the rubber, reassemble, and then readjust the rod.
Buy one of our triple disc Tilton clutches with a custom lightweight flywheel and quit screwing around. This fixes all....except your wallet. Also reduces the wear on the syncros by about 50%, since the discs have very little inertia (compared to the stock discs) and release much easier. The reduced wear also reduces transmission temperature. This is what both Joseph and Mark Anderson are using in their race cars. This is the only clutch that we have tried that will hold 475 and more rwhp. If you have any stock clutch pieces and think you make more than 475rwhp, then the "dream o meter" that you use to dyno your car needs to be calibrated.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
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Terence (12-20-2022)
09-05-2008, 07:15 AM
#18
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Buy one of our triple disc Tilton clutches with a custom lightweight flywheel and quit screwing around. This fixes all....except your wallet.
That's what I did. Was so done with the clutch going out of adjustment after 5 min!
09-05-2008, 01:36 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here are a few pics of the intermediate plate. I see the adjusters, and never messed with them before. sounds like from what greg says, we can manually pull out the intermediate disc by using a long lever stuck in the inspection hole and some pressing of the clutch pedal. Ill have to try that. I dont think the intermediate plate is bad, but you never know. Its probably out of adjustment and so is scots as it has been dragging since day one and i didnt know about this little trick.
Of course, one of the reasons im not to excited about going 500hp so soon, is that things like this clutch and many many others, are limiting factors. heck, just the front tire sizes a lone are limiting better performance on the "push" monster.
mk
Of course, one of the reasons im not to excited about going 500hp so soon, is that things like this clutch and many many others, are limiting factors. heck, just the front tire sizes a lone are limiting better performance on the "push" monster.
mk
09-05-2008, 01:46 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Greg! Thanks!! I get it now!
the intermediate plate floats with a spring so when the pressure plate is pressing, the discs and flyweel are engaged. if those "H" clips are not letting the intermediate plate move back upon clutch engagement, then it drags and cant release the front disc to the flywheel!!! I dont know why that is even there, as if the intermedate plate is sprung to the rear, why would you want to have the adjusters pressing forward anyway??? seems also like if they are bad, then the intermediate plate would always spring to the rear and release the flywheel . Im confused on how a bad intermediate plate could cause an issue with dragging, as the springs are pushing the intermediate plate rear ward. since the intermediate plate has a limit of contact of the front disc and flywheel via the hard structure, why even have adjusters? unless too much rear ward movement pushes on the rear disc and drags on the pressure plate surface. that must be it. anyway , great write up. Ill have to try that method if i have a bar that can fit in the inspection hole.
mk
the intermediate plate floats with a spring so when the pressure plate is pressing, the discs and flyweel are engaged. if those "H" clips are not letting the intermediate plate move back upon clutch engagement, then it drags and cant release the front disc to the flywheel!!! I dont know why that is even there, as if the intermedate plate is sprung to the rear, why would you want to have the adjusters pressing forward anyway??? seems also like if they are bad, then the intermediate plate would always spring to the rear and release the flywheel . Im confused on how a bad intermediate plate could cause an issue with dragging, as the springs are pushing the intermediate plate rear ward. since the intermediate plate has a limit of contact of the front disc and flywheel via the hard structure, why even have adjusters? unless too much rear ward movement pushes on the rear disc and drags on the pressure plate surface.
that must be it. anyway , great write up. Ill have to try that method if i have a bar that can fit in the inspection hole.mk
09-05-2008, 02:07 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Greg,
I dont understand how this would fix the dragging intermediate plate, as all this really is doing is over pulling the pressure plate springs to releave pressure on the rear disc disc, intermediate plate, front disc and flywheel. Are you talking over pushing the slave cylinder so it then has more pressure in the system for later normal actuation? if the problem is those little tabs (and you can see from my picture, that they are normally adjusted all the way forward which might be the issue), isnt the only way to open then up? It sure makes sense how the clutch can drag. that might have been the issue with the 79 and my old 84 as well! I always had to use 2nd or 3rd gear to stop the drive line to get it into reverse or 1st quickly. This little adjustment might have done the trick. a little hole cut in the bell housing will make this kind of adjustment pretty easy. my discs are new-ish looking so i dont think that the pressure plate has closed down the H's due to disc wear.
mk
Greg said: Here's what we suggest doing (or do for) our customers:
The first thing to try is to put a big stinking prybar or screwdriver through the hole in the bottom of the bell housing. Lever against the T/O arm and the hole (right alongside the pushrod), at the same
time that someone actuates the clutch pedal. When the lever goes all the way toward the rear....force the lever (with the prybar) as far back as possible (you are actually manually operating the clutch as far to the rear as possible with the prybar), while someone continues to "pump" on the clutch pedal. The tricky part is not to knock the pushrod out of the hole in the arm, while all this is going on. This will fix about 75% of the cars. It forces the clutch slave to travel slightly farther.
I dont understand how this would fix the dragging intermediate plate, as all this really is doing is over pulling the pressure plate springs to releave pressure on the rear disc disc, intermediate plate, front disc and flywheel. Are you talking over pushing the slave cylinder so it then has more pressure in the system for later normal actuation? if the problem is those little tabs (and you can see from my picture, that they are normally adjusted all the way forward which might be the issue), isnt the only way to open then up? It sure makes sense how the clutch can drag. that might have been the issue with the 79 and my old 84 as well! I always had to use 2nd or 3rd gear to stop the drive line to get it into reverse or 1st quickly. This little adjustment might have done the trick. a little hole cut in the bell housing will make this kind of adjustment pretty easy. my discs are new-ish looking so i dont think that the pressure plate has closed down the H's due to disc wear.
mk
Greg said: Here's what we suggest doing (or do for) our customers:
The first thing to try is to put a big stinking prybar or screwdriver through the hole in the bottom of the bell housing. Lever against the T/O arm and the hole (right alongside the pushrod), at the same
time that someone actuates the clutch pedal. When the lever goes all the way toward the rear....force the lever (with the prybar) as far back as possible (you are actually manually operating the clutch as far to the rear as possible with the prybar), while someone continues to "pump" on the clutch pedal. The tricky part is not to knock the pushrod out of the hole in the arm, while all this is going on. This will fix about 75% of the cars. It forces the clutch slave to travel slightly farther.
09-05-2008, 02:16 PM
#22
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Mark:
Those little pieces, just inboard of your screwdriver are the "H" shaped pieces (there are 3 of them) that Porsche wants you to move all the way to the rear. Those are adjusted with a little screwdriver, by gently prying them back. Just get under the edges, when the clutch is engaged and move them back as far as you can...away from the flywheel. You will need to remove the lower bell housing/clutch slave to do this. If you look at both sides of them, they allow the "floating disc" in the intermediate plate to move. Those flat springs (where your screwdriver is resting) lift the "floating disc" away from the front clutch disc. Those springs are what get damaged as the horsepower increasses. They will actually break in half. Porsche had a huge problem with those flat springs in the 911 series and had to make some changes in 1992. The "forgot" about the reson they made changes and repeated the same mistakes in the 2004 Cup Cars.
The "big" screwdriver/prybar is used only to move the large "throw-out arm", when you are bleeding the system.
Those little pieces, just inboard of your screwdriver are the "H" shaped pieces (there are 3 of them) that Porsche wants you to move all the way to the rear. Those are adjusted with a little screwdriver, by gently prying them back. Just get under the edges, when the clutch is engaged and move them back as far as you can...away from the flywheel. You will need to remove the lower bell housing/clutch slave to do this. If you look at both sides of them, they allow the "floating disc" in the intermediate plate to move. Those flat springs (where your screwdriver is resting) lift the "floating disc" away from the front clutch disc. Those springs are what get damaged as the horsepower increasses. They will actually break in half. Porsche had a huge problem with those flat springs in the 911 series and had to make some changes in 1992. The "forgot" about the reson they made changes and repeated the same mistakes in the 2004 Cup Cars.
The "big" screwdriver/prybar is used only to move the large "throw-out arm", when you are bleeding the system.
09-05-2008, 02:24 PM
#23
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Mark:
Those "H" pieces move whenever the clutch is disassembled and have to be readjusted everytime you remove and reinstall the clutch. They move pretty freely, when the intermediate plate is new. Yours looks to be fairly rusty...they might be very sticky. Try spraying a little bit of HSS2000 on them to lubricate the poor things. Just a few drops will make them much happier. Wiggle them around a bit to get the lubricant under them.
Those "H" pieces move whenever the clutch is disassembled and have to be readjusted everytime you remove and reinstall the clutch. They move pretty freely, when the intermediate plate is new. Yours looks to be fairly rusty...they might be very sticky. Try spraying a little bit of HSS2000 on them to lubricate the poor things. Just a few drops will make them much happier. Wiggle them around a bit to get the lubricant under them.
09-05-2008, 02:29 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I just noticed one more thing. as the "H" adjusters are moved back, it will alow the front disc to releave pressure on the flyweel. BUT, it looks like if you go too far back, since they are an "H" in shape, they actually limit how far the intermediate plate can go forward too. (i just noticed that part of the adjuster)
?
Now, my question is, is the sysetm self adjusting when you adjust the "H"s as far as they can go rearward? does the pressure plate move the intermediate plate and the adjusters until it makes sufficient contact with the flywheel via the front clutch disc? (Is the pressure plate strong enough to over power the "H" adjusters?) sounds like it should, but if the adjusters are TOO FAR forward , as i think they are, then when the clutch is engaged the "H" stops are not letting the intermediate plate disengage with the flywheel and disc. Thats where the adjustment comes in to play. Do I have this right??
Also, if the adjustment is ****-eye'd, then the intermdiate plate is at an angle causing some contact to not let the torque tube slow down when the clutch is engaged.
sounds like a hole, the size of the inspection hole , but inline with the "H" tabs might be an easy way to adjust this. but, ill pull the bell housing AGAIN, to make sure i do it right and mark where a hole needs to be just incase.
mk
?
Now, my question is, is the sysetm self adjusting when you adjust the "H"s as far as they can go rearward? does the pressure plate move the intermediate plate and the adjusters until it makes sufficient contact with the flywheel via the front clutch disc? (Is the pressure plate strong enough to over power the "H" adjusters?) sounds like it should, but if the adjusters are TOO FAR forward , as i think they are, then when the clutch is engaged the "H" stops are not letting the intermediate plate disengage with the flywheel and disc. Thats where the adjustment comes in to play. Do I have this right??
Also, if the adjustment is ****-eye'd, then the intermdiate plate is at an angle causing some contact to not let the torque tube slow down when the clutch is engaged.
sounds like a hole, the size of the inspection hole , but inline with the "H" tabs might be an easy way to adjust this. but, ill pull the bell housing AGAIN, to make sure i do it right and mark where a hole needs to be just incase.
mk
Mark:
Those little pieces, just inboard of your screwdriver are the "H" shaped pieces (there are 3 of them) that Porsche wants you to move all the way to the rear. Those are adjusted with a little screwdriver, by gently prying them back. Just get under the edges, when the clutch is engaged and move them back as far as you can...away from the flywheel. You will need to remove the lower bell housing/clutch slave to do this. If you look at both sides of them, they allow the "floating disc" in the intermediate plate to move. Those flat springs (where your screwdriver is resting) lift the "floating disc" away from the front clutch disc. Those springs are what get damaged as the horsepower increasses. They will actually break in half. Porsche had a huge problem with those flat springs in the 911 series and had to make some changes in 1992. The "forgot" about the reson they made changes and repeated the same mistakes in the 2004 Cup Cars.
The "big" screwdriver/prybar is used only to move the large "throw-out arm", when you are bleeding the system.
Those little pieces, just inboard of your screwdriver are the "H" shaped pieces (there are 3 of them) that Porsche wants you to move all the way to the rear. Those are adjusted with a little screwdriver, by gently prying them back. Just get under the edges, when the clutch is engaged and move them back as far as you can...away from the flywheel. You will need to remove the lower bell housing/clutch slave to do this. If you look at both sides of them, they allow the "floating disc" in the intermediate plate to move. Those flat springs (where your screwdriver is resting) lift the "floating disc" away from the front clutch disc. Those springs are what get damaged as the horsepower increasses. They will actually break in half. Porsche had a huge problem with those flat springs in the 911 series and had to make some changes in 1992. The "forgot" about the reson they made changes and repeated the same mistakes in the 2004 Cup Cars.
The "big" screwdriver/prybar is used only to move the large "throw-out arm", when you are bleeding the system.
09-05-2008, 02:37 PM
#25
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Thread Starter
Dont worry, that was an intermediate plate out of a 79 from the junk pile mated to an onld 84 pressure plate for the Demo example.
however, so if the pressure plate adjusters move freely, then how can they drag so much on the flywheel. you would think that when the clutch was engaged that the disc would just move away with the intermediate plate from the flywheel. Or, is there just a slight amount of pressure needed to adjust them, and if not disturbed, they have enough friction to keep them in the right place? if not, do they provide enough friction to stay in the wrong place and drag the intermediate and clutch disc against the flywheel causing the issue?
Mk
however, so if the pressure plate adjusters move freely, then how can they drag so much on the flywheel. you would think that when the clutch was engaged that the disc would just move away with the intermediate plate from the flywheel. Or, is there just a slight amount of pressure needed to adjust them, and if not disturbed, they have enough friction to keep them in the right place? if not, do they provide enough friction to stay in the wrong place and drag the intermediate and clutch disc against the flywheel causing the issue?
Mk
Mark:
Those "H" pieces move whenever the clutch is disassembled and have to be readjusted everytime you remove and reinstall the clutch. They move pretty freely, when the intermediate plate is new. Yours looks to be fairly rusty...they might be very sticky. Try spraying a little bit of HSS2000 on them to lubricate the poor things. Just a few drops will make them much happier. Wiggle them around a bit to get the lubricant under them.
Those "H" pieces move whenever the clutch is disassembled and have to be readjusted everytime you remove and reinstall the clutch. They move pretty freely, when the intermediate plate is new. Yours looks to be fairly rusty...they might be very sticky. Try spraying a little bit of HSS2000 on them to lubricate the poor things. Just a few drops will make them much happier. Wiggle them around a bit to get the lubricant under them.
09-06-2008, 11:52 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, still BIG problems. I took the bell housing off yet again and got in there and snapped a few pics. take a look.
I still cant get the darn thing in 1st or reverse, unless i turn off the engine and start it in those gears!! Its actually worse after I adjusted it the way everyone is saying. (push those adjusters all the way back toward the pressure plate direction.
This is with the clutch in the drive clamping position. notice how there is a pretty big gap from the "H" head and the intermediate ring. This space, right from the manual is supposed to be 1 to 1.5mm. this is more like 4mm. I think it was near 3mm when i started out, as it looked pretty rearward toward the pressure plate.
When i cut a hole in the bell housing
, i noticed that when i have someone engage the clutch the intermediate plate moves back all the way til contact with the "H" stops. Its (the intermediate plate) showing good movement, so I wonder if the method of pushing out the H all the way possible, might have a negative effect in that it now, might alow the intermediate plate to put pressure on the rear disc and pressure plate. Possible????? If so, i can close that gap by moving the "H" adjuster so that gap in normal clamping condition is near the 1mm spec. maybe there needs to be an equalibrium position between the rear pressure plate and front flywheel discs.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
anyway, did a bleed of the system and the clutch pedal feels good. drove it around (cant get it in 1st or reverse unless I start the car in that gear) . shifting is ok, if i really push all the way down, but its not that bad. and, it starts to slip in the normal clutch movement position. (if you push the clutch in while in gear and accelerating, it starts to slip where it should). also, measured the slave actuator shaft and its moving pretty far back under full clutch depression. I think i measured about 1.5" or so. I marked it to make sure this is sufficient.
So, Thoughts???????
I still cant get the darn thing in 1st or reverse, unless i turn off the engine and start it in those gears!! Its actually worse after I adjusted it the way everyone is saying. (push those adjusters all the way back toward the pressure plate direction.
This is with the clutch in the drive clamping position. notice how there is a pretty big gap from the "H" head and the intermediate ring. This space, right from the manual is supposed to be 1 to 1.5mm. this is more like 4mm. I think it was near 3mm when i started out, as it looked pretty rearward toward the pressure plate.
When i cut a hole in the bell housing
, i noticed that when i have someone engage the clutch the intermediate plate moves back all the way til contact with the "H" stops. Its (the intermediate plate) showing good movement, so I wonder if the method of pushing out the H all the way possible, might have a negative effect in that it now, might alow the intermediate plate to put pressure on the rear disc and pressure plate. Possible????? If so, i can close that gap by moving the "H" adjuster so that gap in normal clamping condition is near the 1mm spec. maybe there needs to be an equalibrium position between the rear pressure plate and front flywheel discs.AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
anyway, did a bleed of the system and the clutch pedal feels good. drove it around (cant get it in 1st or reverse unless I start the car in that gear) . shifting is ok, if i really push all the way down, but its not that bad. and, it starts to slip in the normal clutch movement position. (if you push the clutch in while in gear and accelerating, it starts to slip where it should). also, measured the slave actuator shaft and its moving pretty far back under full clutch depression. I think i measured about 1.5" or so. I marked it to make sure this is sufficient.
So, Thoughts???????
Mark:
Those little pieces, just inboard of your screwdriver are the "H" shaped pieces (there are 3 of them) that Porsche wants you to move all the way to the rear. Those are adjusted with a little screwdriver, by gently prying them back. Just get under the edges, when the clutch is engaged and move them back as far as you can...away from the flywheel. You will need to remove the lower bell housing/clutch slave to do this. If you look at both sides of them, they allow the "floating disc" in the intermediate plate to move. Those flat springs (where your screwdriver is resting) lift the "floating disc" away from the front clutch disc. Those springs are what get damaged as the horsepower increasses. They will actually break in half. Porsche had a huge problem with those flat springs in the 911 series and had to make some changes in 1992. The "forgot" about the reson they made changes and repeated the same mistakes in the 2004 Cup Cars.
The "big" screwdriver/prybar is used only to move the large "throw-out arm", when you are bleeding the system.
Those little pieces, just inboard of your screwdriver are the "H" shaped pieces (there are 3 of them) that Porsche wants you to move all the way to the rear. Those are adjusted with a little screwdriver, by gently prying them back. Just get under the edges, when the clutch is engaged and move them back as far as you can...away from the flywheel. You will need to remove the lower bell housing/clutch slave to do this. If you look at both sides of them, they allow the "floating disc" in the intermediate plate to move. Those flat springs (where your screwdriver is resting) lift the "floating disc" away from the front clutch disc. Those springs are what get damaged as the horsepower increasses. They will actually break in half. Porsche had a huge problem with those flat springs in the 911 series and had to make some changes in 1992. The "forgot" about the reson they made changes and repeated the same mistakes in the 2004 Cup Cars.
The "big" screwdriver/prybar is used only to move the large "throw-out arm", when you are bleeding the system.
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-07-2008 at 02:37 AM.
09-07-2008, 12:09 AM
#27
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Carefully turn the engine over, by hand, and look at the clutch discs, from the side. Make sure that one of the discs has not fractured the lining loose. Also make sure that the "other side of the H pieces are intact". It will not hurt to push the "H" pieces forward, some, if you want to try this. You only need the "H" pieces back far enough to allow the intermediate plate to have enough room to "lift" off of the front disc. 1mm to 1.5mm should be plenty.
With the lower housing off, put the car in gear and pry the T/O arm back with a large prybar. Have someone try to spin the rear tires as you do this. If the tires spin freely when you pry the T/O arm back, the clutch releases.
Move on to "Step 2" on my list, if it releases.
With the lower housing off, put the car in gear and pry the T/O arm back with a large prybar. Have someone try to spin the rear tires as you do this. If the tires spin freely when you pry the T/O arm back, the clutch releases.
Move on to "Step 2" on my list, if it releases.
09-07-2008, 02:54 AM
#28
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Thread Starter
Good idea as well. I check it out tomorrow.
Ill try moving the H as i do think that there could be a chance of the rearward disc dragging on the intermediate plate.
what was step 2 again?
mk
Ill try moving the H as i do think that there could be a chance of the rearward disc dragging on the intermediate plate.
what was step 2 again?
mk
Carefully turn the engine over, by hand, and look at the clutch discs, from the side. Make sure that one of the discs has not fractured the lining loose. Also make sure that the "other side of the H pieces are intact". It will not hurt to push the "H" pieces forward, some, if you want to try this. You only need the "H" pieces back far enough to allow the intermediate plate to have enough room to "lift" off of the front disc. 1mm to 1.5mm should be plenty.
With the lower housing off, put the car in gear and pry the T/O arm back with a large prybar. Have someone try to spin the rear tires as you do this. If the tires spin freely when you pry the T/O arm back, the clutch releases.
Move on to "Step 2" on my list, if it releases.
With the lower housing off, put the car in gear and pry the T/O arm back with a large prybar. Have someone try to spin the rear tires as you do this. If the tires spin freely when you pry the T/O arm back, the clutch releases.
Move on to "Step 2" on my list, if it releases.
09-07-2008, 02:55 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Good idea as well. I check it out tomorrow.
Ill try moving the H as i do think that there could be a chance of the rearward disc dragging on the intermediate plate.
what was step 2 again?
mk
Ill try moving the H as i do think that there could be a chance of the rearward disc dragging on the intermediate plate.
what was step 2 again?
mk
Carefully turn the engine over, by hand, and look at the clutch discs, from the side. Make sure that one of the discs has not fractured the lining loose. Also make sure that the "other side of the H pieces are intact". It will not hurt to push the "H" pieces forward, some, if you want to try this. You only need the "H" pieces back far enough to allow the intermediate plate to have enough room to "lift" off of the front disc. 1mm to 1.5mm should be plenty.
With the lower housing off, put the car in gear and pry the T/O arm back with a large prybar. Have someone try to spin the rear tires as you do this. If the tires spin freely when you pry the T/O arm back, the clutch releases.
Move on to "Step 2" on my list, if it releases.
With the lower housing off, put the car in gear and pry the T/O arm back with a large prybar. Have someone try to spin the rear tires as you do this. If the tires spin freely when you pry the T/O arm back, the clutch releases.
Move on to "Step 2" on my list, if it releases.
09-07-2008, 06:10 AM
#30
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Mark,
I had the same problem you are having once I went with a beefed up pressure plate. I would adjust, be able to pullout of the garage and get the car on the trailer with no problem. 1st and reverse would be just fine. Then it would go out of adjustment when I unloaded at the track.
I would put it into 4th to get a bit of a roll, then 3rd and down to 2nd to get moving. Forget about reverse unless the motor was turned off. PITA ,but worked since it is a track only car and wasn't doing any street driving. Once on the track it really wasn't an issue.
That and the future of destroying of the "stock" setup had me spend the big $$ and put in the Tilton setup. Yes, it really hurts the wallet!
I had the same problem you are having once I went with a beefed up pressure plate. I would adjust, be able to pullout of the garage and get the car on the trailer with no problem. 1st and reverse would be just fine. Then it would go out of adjustment when I unloaded at the track.
I would put it into 4th to get a bit of a roll, then 3rd and down to 2nd to get moving. Forget about reverse unless the motor was turned off. PITA ,but worked since it is a track only car and wasn't doing any street driving. Once on the track it really wasn't an issue.
That and the future of destroying of the "stock" setup had me spend the big $$ and put in the Tilton setup. Yes, it really hurts the wallet!