Oil Change.............Mobil 1?
08-20-2008, 11:03 AM
#47
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try some. you wont be disappointed.
mk
mk
I really hate to get in to the Amsoil versus Mobil 1 fray, but I've been using Mobile 1 since I bought my '94 GTS 5 years ago. Now with 150,000 miles, I've been seeing oil pressure at a hot idle here this summer of 1.5 to 2.0 bar and 4.5 bar above 2000 RPM.
When I've been doing stop and go errand running the last couple of weeks, I've seen the RED Low Oil Pressure Warning on the digital dash at initial startup. Scares the @$%@#$ out of me. Also had this at the Parade autocross in Charlotte on July 2nd.
I'm tempted to try Amsoil 20w-50, just to see if it makes a difference. I don't drive the car everyday (it may sit for several days at a time), and I'd like to get a lot more miles out of her.
Yesterday, it took around 5 minutes for the lifter noise to go away, after the car sat for 5 days.
How is the zinc content in Amsoil?
When I've been doing stop and go errand running the last couple of weeks, I've seen the RED Low Oil Pressure Warning on the digital dash at initial startup. Scares the @$%@#$ out of me. Also had this at the Parade autocross in Charlotte on July 2nd.
I'm tempted to try Amsoil 20w-50, just to see if it makes a difference. I don't drive the car everyday (it may sit for several days at a time), and I'd like to get a lot more miles out of her.
Yesterday, it took around 5 minutes for the lifter noise to go away, after the car sat for 5 days.
How is the zinc content in Amsoil?
08-20-2008, 11:32 AM
#48
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My understanding is that it is the GF-4 rating that limits the ZDDP, not the SM rating. According to the "Mobile 1 Product Guide" the 15W-50 viscosity (both regular and "extended performance") carry an SM rating, no GF-4 rating, and have 1200ppm of phosphorus (ZDDP) which is good-- compared to a 800ppm limit for a GF-4 rated oil. Most other Mobil-1 viscosities are GF-4 rated and are 800ppm, the 15W-50 viscocities are different than the others. And 1200ppm is where oils were at a few years ago. (Hacker, motorcycle oils are around 1600, I think that is too high for cat's-- which motorcycles don't have).
Here's the latest Mobil-1 product guide (May '08):
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
(or Google for "Mobile 1 Product Guide" -- with quotes).
Now having said all that, ZDDP is not the only thing that's important and these guys always seem to be messing with the formula. And zinc/phosphorus has nothing to do with oil pressure, it's importance is to protect high-pressure slidy-things like cam lobes on flat lifters.
So something else is going on with the low oil pressure, and changing to something different would certainly be a good first step. But I would also send off an oil analysis before draining it, just to make sure that something else isn't going on in there.
Mark, which Amsoil product/weight are you using?
Here's the latest Mobil-1 product guide (May '08):
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
(or Google for "Mobile 1 Product Guide" -- with quotes).
Now having said all that, ZDDP is not the only thing that's important and these guys always seem to be messing with the formula. And zinc/phosphorus has nothing to do with oil pressure, it's importance is to protect high-pressure slidy-things like cam lobes on flat lifters.
So something else is going on with the low oil pressure, and changing to something different would certainly be a good first step. But I would also send off an oil analysis before draining it, just to make sure that something else isn't going on in there.
Mark, which Amsoil product/weight are you using?
08-20-2008, 11:44 AM
#49
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Interesting, I need to look into that.
Last edited by hacker-pschorr; 08-20-2008 at 12:02 PM.
08-20-2008, 12:24 PM
#50
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15/50 Mobil uno
08-20-2008, 01:38 PM
#51
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I use 20-50 racing oil from Amsoil. 7 years of hard racing, 103 race days, no oil cooler or accusump.
And, Scot uses amsoil in the engine i built for him, he is on his 2nd racing season.
I also had run my old part euro 5 liter on Amsoil for two racing seasons as well.
I think all oils are just fine. Im breaking my stroker in with 10-40 penzoil. I have noticed that when things get rough (high temps) that most all oils fall on their face in the oil pressure department. as long a you are not running around turn 2 at thunderhill in 100 degree temps, and are concerned with low high rpm oil pressures, you should be fine running most any good oil.
mk
And, Scot uses amsoil in the engine i built for him, he is on his 2nd racing season.
I also had run my old part euro 5 liter on Amsoil for two racing seasons as well.
I think all oils are just fine. Im breaking my stroker in with 10-40 penzoil. I have noticed that when things get rough (high temps) that most all oils fall on their face in the oil pressure department. as long a you are not running around turn 2 at thunderhill in 100 degree temps, and are concerned with low high rpm oil pressures, you should be fine running most any good oil.
mk
08-20-2008, 02:06 PM
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08-20-2008, 02:22 PM
#53
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08-20-2008, 02:33 PM
#54
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Probably more important that you change it once a year than it is what you put in it which makes the real expensive options even more expensive. While we are at it changing oil every 3,000 miles is an complete and total waste of money and oil. Porsche in the owners manual states ..."oil change interval is 15,000 miles 10-40,15-50 or 20-50 (20-50 should not be used at constant tempuratures below 5 degrees) ...
08-20-2008, 02:34 PM
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I think most are splitting hairs here as they are all good oils. I use the M1 15-50 red label. NOT because of anyone else's recommendation, but because I bought a new Ford F150 in 1992. From the first oil change I used M1. The truck now has 320K miles on it and I have never had any issues with the motor and it STILL runs strong. (Wish I could say that about the previous 4 transmissions in the damn thing!)
08-20-2008, 03:16 PM
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Everything you guys are saying was true....until the government got involved, early last year.
Now all bets are off and everything you guys are thinking and using is......changed.
The government, in their infinate wisdom, decided that the zinc and phosphorus additives were damaging the catalytic convertors on the OBD II cars. They then, without much public discussion, required the oil companies to change their oil formulation to take half of the zinc and phosphorus additive package away. The resulting formula has the "new" API designation of "SM". Note that this is the official stance that everyone involved is taking....I personally think that they want to get all the older cars off the road.
Great! What does this mean to us 928 guys? Well, it turns out that the zinc and phosphous are the additives that "cushion" things in the engine that don't get oil pressure and "ride" on a film of oil.....like camshafts and lifters. The short story is that "SM" oil is "death in a can" for 928 engines! Pour it in and watch your cams disolve! I have only one word of advice....get it out....yesterday!!! I've been dealing with this for over a year...and we have completely changed what oils we use in engines. I've got stacks and stacks of cases of 15-50 Mobil 1 that I'm having a tough time getting rid of....in case you Mobil 1 fans can't find it.....
So, the only oils that currently will work and protect our camshafts are from the smaller, non API companies....like Brad Penn, Torco, and Amsoil! Yes, Amsoil....Mark Kibort has been right all along....Amsoil has a pile of Zinc and Phosphorus additives. Note that the Shell Rotella that I've seen for sale at Walmart is still old stock, "SL" oil...that still has the Zinc and Phosphorus in it.
We've switched over to Torco in my shop. They also make an additive that you can pour into your Mobil 1, that will put the Zinc and Phophorus back in....until you can get rid of that oil that you bought on sale at Walmart.
Doubtful? Go to an article by LN Engineering about oil. For some reason, I can never get the web site to come up (www.inengineering.com/oil.html). I just search "Porsche Air Cooled Oil" and their article comes up immediately.
Sorry to ruin your parade.
Now all bets are off and everything you guys are thinking and using is......changed.
The government, in their infinate wisdom, decided that the zinc and phosphorus additives were damaging the catalytic convertors on the OBD II cars. They then, without much public discussion, required the oil companies to change their oil formulation to take half of the zinc and phosphorus additive package away. The resulting formula has the "new" API designation of "SM". Note that this is the official stance that everyone involved is taking....I personally think that they want to get all the older cars off the road.
Great! What does this mean to us 928 guys? Well, it turns out that the zinc and phosphous are the additives that "cushion" things in the engine that don't get oil pressure and "ride" on a film of oil.....like camshafts and lifters. The short story is that "SM" oil is "death in a can" for 928 engines! Pour it in and watch your cams disolve! I have only one word of advice....get it out....yesterday!!! I've been dealing with this for over a year...and we have completely changed what oils we use in engines. I've got stacks and stacks of cases of 15-50 Mobil 1 that I'm having a tough time getting rid of....in case you Mobil 1 fans can't find it.....
So, the only oils that currently will work and protect our camshafts are from the smaller, non API companies....like Brad Penn, Torco, and Amsoil! Yes, Amsoil....Mark Kibort has been right all along....Amsoil has a pile of Zinc and Phosphorus additives. Note that the Shell Rotella that I've seen for sale at Walmart is still old stock, "SL" oil...that still has the Zinc and Phosphorus in it.
We've switched over to Torco in my shop. They also make an additive that you can pour into your Mobil 1, that will put the Zinc and Phophorus back in....until you can get rid of that oil that you bought on sale at Walmart.
Doubtful? Go to an article by LN Engineering about oil. For some reason, I can never get the web site to come up (www.inengineering.com/oil.html). I just search "Porsche Air Cooled Oil" and their article comes up immediately.
Sorry to ruin your parade.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
08-20-2008, 04:15 PM
#58
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This link?
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
I’ve read through this a few times, very informative.
Last week I discovered one of our local auto parts stores with Brad Penn on the shelf. I’m still working through a few cases of Royal Purple I picked up on sale last year.
Before I asked Kibort specifically what oil he is using since some of their oil (Amsoil) is SM rated. Like the 10w-40 XL I see on the shelf here locally.
08-20-2008, 04:18 PM
#59
Greg,
Do you have any examples of accelerated cam/lifter wear in a 928 engine using the non zinc oil?
Do you have any examples of accelerated cam/lifter wear in a 928 engine using the non zinc oil?
Everything you guys are saying was true....until the government got involved, early last year.
Now all bets are off and everything you guys are thinking and using is......changed.
The government, in their infinate wisdom, decided that the zinc and phosphorus additives were damaging the catalytic convertors on the OBD II cars. They then, without much public discussion, required the oil companies to change their oil formulation to take half of the zinc and phosphorus additive package away. The resulting formula has the "new" API designation of "SM". Note that this is the official stance that everyone involved is taking....I personally think that they want to get all the older cars off the road.
Great! What does this mean to us 928 guys? Well, it turns out that the zinc and phosphous are the additives that "cushion" things in the engine that don't get oil pressure and "ride" on a film of oil.....like camshafts and lifters. The short story is that "SM" oil is "death in a can" for 928 engines! Pour it in and watch your cams disolve! I have only one word of advice....get it out....yesterday!!! I've been dealing with this for over a year...and we have completely changed what oils we use in engines. I've got stacks and stacks of cases of 15-50 Mobil 1 that I'm having a tough time getting rid of....in case you Mobil 1 fans can't find it.....
So, the only oils that currently will work and protect our camshafts are from the smaller, non API companies....like Brad Penn, Torco, and Amsoil! Yes, Amsoil....Mark Kibort has been right all along....Amsoil has a pile of Zinc and Phosphorus additives. Note that the Shell Rotella that I've seen for sale at Walmart is still old stock, "SL" oil...that still has the Zinc and Phosphorus in it.
We've switched over to Torco in my shop. They also make an additive that you can pour into your Mobil 1, that will put the Zinc and Phophorus back in....until you can get rid of that oil that you bought on sale at Walmart.
Doubtful? Go to an article by LN Engineering about oil. For some reason, I can never get the web site to come up (www.inengineering.com/oil.html). I just search "Porsche Air Cooled Oil" and their article comes up immediately.
Sorry to ruin your parade.
Now all bets are off and everything you guys are thinking and using is......changed.
The government, in their infinate wisdom, decided that the zinc and phosphorus additives were damaging the catalytic convertors on the OBD II cars. They then, without much public discussion, required the oil companies to change their oil formulation to take half of the zinc and phosphorus additive package away. The resulting formula has the "new" API designation of "SM". Note that this is the official stance that everyone involved is taking....I personally think that they want to get all the older cars off the road.
Great! What does this mean to us 928 guys? Well, it turns out that the zinc and phosphous are the additives that "cushion" things in the engine that don't get oil pressure and "ride" on a film of oil.....like camshafts and lifters. The short story is that "SM" oil is "death in a can" for 928 engines! Pour it in and watch your cams disolve! I have only one word of advice....get it out....yesterday!!! I've been dealing with this for over a year...and we have completely changed what oils we use in engines. I've got stacks and stacks of cases of 15-50 Mobil 1 that I'm having a tough time getting rid of....in case you Mobil 1 fans can't find it.....
So, the only oils that currently will work and protect our camshafts are from the smaller, non API companies....like Brad Penn, Torco, and Amsoil! Yes, Amsoil....Mark Kibort has been right all along....Amsoil has a pile of Zinc and Phosphorus additives. Note that the Shell Rotella that I've seen for sale at Walmart is still old stock, "SL" oil...that still has the Zinc and Phosphorus in it.
We've switched over to Torco in my shop. They also make an additive that you can pour into your Mobil 1, that will put the Zinc and Phophorus back in....until you can get rid of that oil that you bought on sale at Walmart.
Doubtful? Go to an article by LN Engineering about oil. For some reason, I can never get the web site to come up (www.inengineering.com/oil.html). I just search "Porsche Air Cooled Oil" and their article comes up immediately.
Sorry to ruin your parade.
