Tie Rods; Counter Hold Rack??? Or no?
05-08-2008, 07:47 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Tie Rods; Counter Hold Rack??? Or no?
Hey guys.
Doing the Tie Rods on Friday. I have found many posts and seen all the tech tips from other sites.
But the thing that seems to vary is the need to counter hold the rack when removing the inner Tie Rod.
Some posts say "yes" others say "no".
Is this a "better safe then sorry scenario?", or is it ok to just remove the inner tie rod without the counter hold on the rack?
And if anyone knows the right size wrenches for the job, that would be nice to know in advance.
Also.............also, the tie rod that has "failed" is on the passenger side. I noticed that the drivers front wheel's tread is very worn on the most inside tread, all the other tread is fine, in fact most of the rubber is new and in great shape other then the drivers inner tread, as mentioned.
Is this a symptom of the failed tie rod on the passenger side?
Should new tire ('s) be in the immediate future if the only tread that is worn is just that inner ring on the drivers tire?
Thanks guys!
Shawn
84' 928
74' TR6
Doing the Tie Rods on Friday. I have found many posts and seen all the tech tips from other sites.
But the thing that seems to vary is the need to counter hold the rack when removing the inner Tie Rod.
Some posts say "yes" others say "no".
Is this a "better safe then sorry scenario?", or is it ok to just remove the inner tie rod without the counter hold on the rack?
And if anyone knows the right size wrenches for the job, that would be nice to know in advance.
Also.............also, the tie rod that has "failed" is on the passenger side. I noticed that the drivers front wheel's tread is very worn on the most inside tread, all the other tread is fine, in fact most of the rubber is new and in great shape other then the drivers inner tread, as mentioned.
Is this a symptom of the failed tie rod on the passenger side?
Should new tire ('s) be in the immediate future if the only tread that is worn is just that inner ring on the drivers tire?
Thanks guys!
Shawn
84' 928
74' TR6
05-08-2008, 08:05 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Shawn, I would counterhold, what do you have to lose?
The wear pattern indicates a front end alignment done by a shop that raised the car to put on the alignment equipment. (You need to find a shop that will do the alignment without lifting the car).
The wear pattern indicates a front end alignment done by a shop that raised the car to put on the alignment equipment. (You need to find a shop that will do the alignment without lifting the car).
05-08-2008, 08:12 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Another for absolutely counterhold: if not, the rack rod is tourqued against the more delicate pinion gear ..... and it can take some serious wrenching to break some inner rod ends free.
05-08-2008, 08:16 PM
#5
Shawn,
Always counter hold as you should not put any torque/twisting force back onto the rack or even onto ball joint of tire rod end. The steering system is designed to take and pushing and pulling forces not torque forces.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto
Always counter hold as you should not put any torque/twisting force back onto the rack or even onto ball joint of tire rod end. The steering system is designed to take and pushing and pulling forces not torque forces.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto
05-08-2008, 08:16 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Always counterhold if possible. It prevents secondary damage to internal parts.
05-08-2008, 08:26 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the boatyard installing the mast and engine, we don't need a crane, we harness the mesquito's! Yeah!
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Well you could just see which is stronger, the racks torsional strength (which it wasn't designed for) or the monkey that tightened the last tie rod
I'd back it up if it were me.
The tire wear on the inside is indeed a alignment issue - however it doesn't have to mean the car was lifted - it could just be from the worn out tie rod causing toe out. The passenger side pulling out might cause the wear on the drivers side as this would then be the tire working the hardest to keep the car tracking.
If your going to run that tire - put it in the back and see how it does. Personally - I'd replace it - my safety, and the safety of all who ride in the car is not worth jeopardizing over a worn tire.
I'd back it up if it were me.
The tire wear on the inside is indeed a alignment issue - however it doesn't have to mean the car was lifted - it could just be from the worn out tie rod causing toe out. The passenger side pulling out might cause the wear on the drivers side as this would then be the tire working the hardest to keep the car tracking.
If your going to run that tire - put it in the back and see how it does. Personally - I'd replace it - my safety, and the safety of all who ride in the car is not worth jeopardizing over a worn tire.
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05-08-2008, 08:50 PM
#8
Race Director
We counter held both sides when we put in my steering rack a couple months ago....the torque spec for the rack end tie rod is something around 108 ftlbs so you really gotta crank on it!!
05-08-2008, 10:18 PM
#9
Drifting
use a very thin 32mm or 1-1/4" wrench that accomodates a torque wrench .....this is a 1/2" drive Snap-on 1-1/4" crowfoot that I modified using a dremel..
Last edited by borland; 05-12-2008 at 12:13 AM.
05-08-2008, 10:51 PM
#11
Team Owner
you need to couterhold the rack otherwise you may damage the internal seals.
This is best done with the front wheels removed and the car up on jackstands.
Remove the boots towards the wheels, center the wheels and if you look carefully you will see what looks like an aluminum spacer thats sitting next to the inner part of th tierod, with a small hammerand screw driver tap on this part till it slides about 1 inch towards the center of the car( this lets you fit a Big *** wrench on the inner tie rod)
The correct wrenches are a 32 mm and a 22 mm you will see the cut outs on the rack for the 22 and the inner nut has the 32 wear, gloves so if the wrenches slip you wont remove skin.
Un do the outer tie rod nut (but leave it on till the joint has been broken)and Using a pickle fork remove the outer tie rod.
Then with the removed inner/outer tie rod go to the vice and first unscrew the new part( seperate the inner/outer to fit the boot) and fit your new boot to the new rod then refit the outer tie rod to the inner part and holding the inner threads in a vice match the new part to the old , set the lock nut and refitto the car, just make the inner rod tight to the rack (if it ever comes loose you will know way before it falls out, as the tires will be singing) then to fit the boot first spray some WD40 onto the rack and the boot edge, turn the wheel all the way to one side this puts the inner nut and spacer close to the inner rack housing and make it easy to slide the boot into place.
Do the other side the same way
This is best done with the front wheels removed and the car up on jackstands.
Remove the boots towards the wheels, center the wheels and if you look carefully you will see what looks like an aluminum spacer thats sitting next to the inner part of th tierod, with a small hammerand screw driver tap on this part till it slides about 1 inch towards the center of the car( this lets you fit a Big *** wrench on the inner tie rod)
The correct wrenches are a 32 mm and a 22 mm you will see the cut outs on the rack for the 22 and the inner nut has the 32 wear, gloves so if the wrenches slip you wont remove skin.
Un do the outer tie rod nut (but leave it on till the joint has been broken)and Using a pickle fork remove the outer tie rod.
Then with the removed inner/outer tie rod go to the vice and first unscrew the new part( seperate the inner/outer to fit the boot) and fit your new boot to the new rod then refit the outer tie rod to the inner part and holding the inner threads in a vice match the new part to the old , set the lock nut and refitto the car, just make the inner rod tight to the rack (if it ever comes loose you will know way before it falls out, as the tires will be singing) then to fit the boot first spray some WD40 onto the rack and the boot edge, turn the wheel all the way to one side this puts the inner nut and spacer close to the inner rack housing and make it easy to slide the boot into place.
Do the other side the same way
05-09-2008, 01:12 AM
#12
Chronic Tool Dropper
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What Stan said...
Plus, plan on doing both sides, inner and outer tie rods and ends. There may appear to be one worn more than the other, but generally, unless there was an accident, they both wear pretty much the same. Parts are relatively cheap, and the labor is almost the same once you have the tools out and the car raised up. I think you generally get the same cost for aligning both front wheels vs just one.
Plus, plan on doing both sides, inner and outer tie rods and ends. There may appear to be one worn more than the other, but generally, unless there was an accident, they both wear pretty much the same. Parts are relatively cheap, and the labor is almost the same once you have the tools out and the car raised up. I think you generally get the same cost for aligning both front wheels vs just one.
05-09-2008, 02:34 AM
#13
Under the Lift
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Maybe some believe counterholding is not necessary, but I don't think anyone suggested you defintely should not counterhold. Just do it.
05-09-2008, 07:26 AM
#14
Addict
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Definitely counterhold do not undo the tie rods without counterholding.
The outer end of the "Rods in the rack that push and pull the tie rods" are only located laterally at each end of the rack by a nylon bush about 3mm thick. This bush is not really there to prevent lateral movement it is there to support the wiper seals which are outboard of the of the Nylon bushes.
The seal can probably accomodate the movement in the Rods that would be generated by not counterholding, the nylon bushes can not accomdate this movement and will deform permanently thus causing the wiper seal to sit crookedly and stop sealing. Rack rebuild time.
If you have an earlier rack it has metal bushes instead of nylon - not counterholding these raises the possiility of the metal bush scoring the Rack rod as well - new rack required.
If on the car undoing is not possible or appears very difficult remove the rack from the car and counterhold the rack rod in a vice.
The outer end of the "Rods in the rack that push and pull the tie rods" are only located laterally at each end of the rack by a nylon bush about 3mm thick. This bush is not really there to prevent lateral movement it is there to support the wiper seals which are outboard of the of the Nylon bushes.
The seal can probably accomodate the movement in the Rods that would be generated by not counterholding, the nylon bushes can not accomdate this movement and will deform permanently thus causing the wiper seal to sit crookedly and stop sealing. Rack rebuild time.
If you have an earlier rack it has metal bushes instead of nylon - not counterholding these raises the possiility of the metal bush scoring the Rack rod as well - new rack required.
If on the car undoing is not possible or appears very difficult remove the rack from the car and counterhold the rack rod in a vice.
