How much does it cost to build a 928 Track Car???
10-27-2009 | 10:15 PM
#121
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Words, words, words.......Kibort why don't you do a couple POC events next year ? like one at Willow Springs maybe Buttonwillow ? Speaking of Willow Springs what was your lap time for the "Time Attack" or what ever they called that magazine test day ? Oh right old street tires ....low barometric pressure , 20 mph headwind.... e-ram plugged in....
10-28-2009 | 12:25 AM
#122
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One thing I found very interesting when I was checking out the full race Griggs mustangs.....in theory they are "touring" cars in that they still use stock floorpans, but ONLY the rails and center section....the front of the cars is just the two forward stock rails cut all apart with custom coilovers mounted under the stock struct tower and the entire suspension is custom adjustable A arms....not one piece of that front suspension was stock...nothing......only the cut up frame rails with lots of extra bracing
It would be a lot like replacing the rear crossmember on a 928. it just unbolts and would allow you to completely change the rear geometry.
10-28-2009 | 01:59 AM
#123
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The irony! Jim, enter a race, and run 150 race days and then tell me how anyone who wants to build a 928 track car or any car, will notice any difference for the first year with what he drives.
Lap time at Buttonwillow was 1:59. confg 13 with bus stop. Yep, tight course, and you can watch the video.
I had to run in street prepared class. (had to put in window glass, run 100 treadwear tires, etc)
Willow springs was 1:33 with a stock 84 928 that I drove to the track and near 3500lbs with driver back in '98.
All you need to know is 1:38.8 at laguna seca on toyos with a 310rwhp 928 with a set of headers.
Now, your point is? Jim, let me give you a little dose of reality here.
The question was what it costs to build a 928 race car. I gave an answer that incorporated the performance that the owner will want to have as a potential.
If you are new driver, do you think a cup car or Holbert 928 will turn much of a different lap time. neither car will break 1:40 until the driver gets some seat time. The times you quote are top club racers. The times you can run if you are good are the ones Ive listed. you tell me the time, Ill tell you the cost of doing it in a 928 with someone that knows how to toss one around.
You keep on quoting "slow" or "fast" . Its all realitive. there always will be someone faster. What I will tell you is that if you can run in the 1:37s at laguna, you will always have a lot of cars in the front of any club pack to race with, and thats what we as racers want. Winning? class? POC has classes, like R2R. Its basically anything goes. yes, an ALMS GT3RSR can run 1:23 at laguna and Anderson is 1:31s is that much of a race? WCGT GT3s are running 1:19 at Willow springs, Anderson is in the 1:23s and he is good there. Whats your point?
If you want to run fast, get a gt3 based racer and prepare to spend some big money. want to run fast for cheap, run a 928 and prepare to have dependable fun! Thats not words Jim, thats 10 years of racing them and never missing a season race.
Lap time at Buttonwillow was 1:59. confg 13 with bus stop. Yep, tight course, and you can watch the video.
I had to run in street prepared class. (had to put in window glass, run 100 treadwear tires, etc)Willow springs was 1:33 with a stock 84 928 that I drove to the track and near 3500lbs with driver back in '98.
All you need to know is 1:38.8 at laguna seca on toyos with a 310rwhp 928 with a set of headers.
Now, your point is? Jim, let me give you a little dose of reality here.
The question was what it costs to build a 928 race car. I gave an answer that incorporated the performance that the owner will want to have as a potential.
If you are new driver, do you think a cup car or Holbert 928 will turn much of a different lap time. neither car will break 1:40 until the driver gets some seat time. The times you quote are top club racers. The times you can run if you are good are the ones Ive listed. you tell me the time, Ill tell you the cost of doing it in a 928 with someone that knows how to toss one around.
You keep on quoting "slow" or "fast" . Its all realitive. there always will be someone faster. What I will tell you is that if you can run in the 1:37s at laguna, you will always have a lot of cars in the front of any club pack to race with, and thats what we as racers want. Winning? class? POC has classes, like R2R. Its basically anything goes. yes, an ALMS GT3RSR can run 1:23 at laguna and Anderson is 1:31s is that much of a race? WCGT GT3s are running 1:19 at Willow springs, Anderson is in the 1:23s and he is good there. Whats your point?
If you want to run fast, get a gt3 based racer and prepare to spend some big money. want to run fast for cheap, run a 928 and prepare to have dependable fun! Thats not words Jim, thats 10 years of racing them and never missing a season race.
Words, words, words.......Kibort why don't you do a couple POC events next year ? like one at Willow Springs maybe Buttonwillow ? Speaking of Willow Springs what was your lap time for the "Time Attack" or what ever they called that magazine test day ? Oh right old street tires ....low barometric pressure , 20 mph headwind.... e-ram plugged in....
10-28-2009 | 11:12 AM
#124
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10-28-2009 | 01:40 PM
#125
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Work done yourself, or by someone else? (except cage?)
We could do this for 4 classes of cars.
1. stock (basicallly with bolt on rims/ tires and street sport supspension as the only mods)
2. modified. (headers intake, cams, suspension, major gutting,5 liter upgrade for the 4.7s )
3. performance modified. modified with a stroker.
4. super performance (performance modified with all the racing upgrades like anderson)
Cost will start with base car. $1000 to $6000
street sport suspension will cost $1000 and rims and tires $2000 (used or new rims and certainly used toyos as they are cheap on line with availability)
cage will cost 2000 until super performace
headers $750, intake $500, $1-2000 cams,
Safety equip. $500 seat, $200 belts, $100 fire ext., $50 window net
swaybar $400 or cheater droplinks, $200 or $400 front to rear
Gutting free
Time ranges at laguna or a track near you based on World Challenge touring times as a bench mark:
Laguna Seca:
stock 1:50-4 $8k
modified 1:39-1:41 $12-16k (non stroker,base stock engine)
performance 1:36-7 (equals fastes WC touring times in races) $25k-35k (stroker or other engine mods hits the high end)
super performance 1:31-2 $40-50k
Just add up the mods and you can get a total cost.
Much depends on how much work you can do yourself
I have hours recorded and its a lot of time. since getting my S4 home from the transplant, ive spent 20 hours and have barely made a dent. Now, if it was a running S4 with nothing to fix, it would be further along
We could do this for 4 classes of cars.
1. stock (basicallly with bolt on rims/ tires and street sport supspension as the only mods)
2. modified. (headers intake, cams, suspension, major gutting,5 liter upgrade for the 4.7s )
3. performance modified. modified with a stroker.
4. super performance (performance modified with all the racing upgrades like anderson)
Cost will start with base car. $1000 to $6000
street sport suspension will cost $1000 and rims and tires $2000 (used or new rims and certainly used toyos as they are cheap on line with availability)
cage will cost 2000 until super performace
headers $750, intake $500, $1-2000 cams,
Safety equip. $500 seat, $200 belts, $100 fire ext., $50 window net
swaybar $400 or cheater droplinks, $200 or $400 front to rear
Gutting free
Time ranges at laguna or a track near you based on World Challenge touring times as a bench mark:
Laguna Seca:
stock 1:50-4 $8k
modified 1:39-1:41 $12-16k (non stroker,base stock engine)
performance 1:36-7 (equals fastes WC touring times in races) $25k-35k (stroker or other engine mods hits the high end)
super performance 1:31-2 $40-50k
Just add up the mods and you can get a total cost.
Much depends on how much work you can do yourself
I have hours recorded and its a lot of time. since getting my S4 home from the transplant, ive spent 20 hours and have barely made a dent. Now, if it was a running S4 with nothing to fix, it would be further along
Last edited by mark kibort; 10-28-2009 at 05:33 PM.
10-28-2009 | 03:16 PM
#126
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The only problem with this post is that it has "generalizations". Everyone can generally cost out building a track car... I put my data out there so others can see exactly what I bought and what it cost. This plus my intended use makes for a "real world" example.
I would like to see a breakdown of the Holbert car (and subsequent body..have you named it yet?) similar to what I did in the first post. The intended use in your case Mark is well known... If all the racers (Mark A included) did this I think a pattern will emerge
Thanks,
I would like to see a breakdown of the Holbert car (and subsequent body..have you named it yet?) similar to what I did in the first post. The intended use in your case Mark is well known... If all the racers (Mark A included) did this I think a pattern will emerge
Thanks,
Work done yourself, or by someone else? (except cage?)
We could do this for 4 classes of cars.
1. stock (basicallly with bolt on rims/ tires and street sport supspension as the only mods)
2. modified. (headers intake, cams, suspension, major gutting,5 liter upgrade for the 4.7s )
3. performance modified. modified with a stroker.
4. super performance (performance modified with all the racing upgrades like anderson)
Cost will start with base car. $1000 to $6000
street sport suspension will cost $1000 and rims and tires $2000 (used or new rims and certainly used toyos as they are cheap on line with availability)
cage will cost 2000 until super performace
headers $750, intake $500, $1-2000 cams,
Safety equip. $500 seat, $200 belts, $100 fire ext., $50 window net
swaybar $400 or cheater droplinks, $200 or $400 front to rear
Gutting free
Time ranges at laguna or a track near you based on World Challenge touring times as a bench mark:
Laguna Seca:
stock 1:50-4 $8k
modified 1:39-1:41 $12-16k
performance 1:36-7 (equals fastes WC touring times in races) $25k-35k (stroker hits the high end)
super performance 1:31-2 $40-50k
Just add up the mods and you can get a total cost.
Much depends on how much work you can do yourself
I have hours recorded and its a lot of time. since getting my S4 home from the transplant, ive spent 20 hours and have barely made a dent. Now, if it was a running S4 with nothing to fix, it would be further along
We could do this for 4 classes of cars.
1. stock (basicallly with bolt on rims/ tires and street sport supspension as the only mods)
2. modified. (headers intake, cams, suspension, major gutting,5 liter upgrade for the 4.7s )
3. performance modified. modified with a stroker.
4. super performance (performance modified with all the racing upgrades like anderson)
Cost will start with base car. $1000 to $6000
street sport suspension will cost $1000 and rims and tires $2000 (used or new rims and certainly used toyos as they are cheap on line with availability)
cage will cost 2000 until super performace
headers $750, intake $500, $1-2000 cams,
Safety equip. $500 seat, $200 belts, $100 fire ext., $50 window net
swaybar $400 or cheater droplinks, $200 or $400 front to rear
Gutting free
Time ranges at laguna or a track near you based on World Challenge touring times as a bench mark:
Laguna Seca:
stock 1:50-4 $8k
modified 1:39-1:41 $12-16k
performance 1:36-7 (equals fastes WC touring times in races) $25k-35k (stroker hits the high end)
super performance 1:31-2 $40-50k
Just add up the mods and you can get a total cost.
Much depends on how much work you can do yourself
I have hours recorded and its a lot of time. since getting my S4 home from the transplant, ive spent 20 hours and have barely made a dent. Now, if it was a running S4 with nothing to fix, it would be further along
10-28-2009 | 09:42 PM
#127
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This is why I choose to race on the street. All I need to prep a car for racing is a HUGE wing, Stickers and a couple Fart Cans... Oh and Neon if I'm playing with the big boys.
10-28-2009 | 10:01 PM
#128
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10-29-2009 | 01:21 AM
#130
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10-29-2009 | 01:23 AM
#131
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01-20-2013 | 02:39 AM
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So...in the spirit of open source..and full disclosure, I figured I would start a thread on what it is costing to build my 928 Track Car. Now I'm not planning on going full bore (like Mark A)..but using this car to hit Driver Ed events, some SCCA events, maybe an open road race or two..basically to have a 928 that I can thrash at the track without fear of beating up my 89GT..so..here goes...
First and foremost..finding the appropriate starting car....I got lucky (in my mind anyway)...and found a 82 5speed 928 that has GTS flares and an S4 motor installed and was running when I got it...
Cost..$4200
(I'm ignoring transportation to my home and other costs like registration because they will vary greatly)..
new Power Steering pump line $100
Recaro SRD's $800
C&R all aluminum Radiator $500
full S4 suspension/brakes $1500
Full roll cage $1800
38mm bolt on spacer $110
The rest of it was sweat equity..ripping out the interior etc..cleanup of sound deadener panels..fixing leaking PS pump...
that all totals up to :
$9010
that said...my goal was to be around 10K...and I know I'll go over that by some since I bought some stuff I didn't need..but wanted...like the rad....and i know I will eventually get GT cams..and a LSD...but I think for a budget racer..this target/cost is about one should expect to build a 928 tracker..
I do remember that 84 Euro the guy drove out to Sharktoberfest from NJ..had no sunroof...5sp LSD tranny..and S4 engine..all for around 5K...that would be a good starter candidate..
As far as buying a prepped racer to start with..there were a few here...most notably Dean K's car..that Ken Osage bought..for around 15K I think...ready to roll...great deal...and then Constantine sold his Coca Cola 85 track car (minus an engine) for around 12K..Abby is in the process of re-constructing that one...
I'll keep updating this thread as my costs increase...if anyone else has some price point data they are willing to share...feel free to contribute....
Thanks,
OK..update some more...
Kinesis K5's 17x10 and 17x 11 with 275s and 315's Hoosiers.. $1800ish.
SRD Sliders $220
Cobra Suzuka GT fixed back kevlar seat $250.
Sheet of lexan to make side windows and rear quarter windows and rear hatch window.. $134.00
hypercoil 750lb and 500 springs with some misc. perches used with stock sport bilsteins shocks...$250 (used old S4 bits to construct the suspension)
total now..as of Sept 08
$11,664
so..now need to sell the CS rims with 245 hoosiers and the Recaro SRDs..now with sliders...
Cost to be updated once those sell...
As of October 2009...
Sold Recaros SRDs (-900)
new Lizard Short Shifter (100)
new 930S Steering wheel (150)
1990 GT transmission (1500)
MegaSquirt Conversion (1100)
Sold CS rims (-1100)
930 S steering wheel donated to a good cause
Removable steering wheel and hub assembly from Ebay (182)
plexiglas windows, hatch and rear quarters mounting stuff (rivets etc) (50)
Total Track car costs as of June 2010 ... $12746
Update Jan 2013
(weird..can't edit my original post..can a mod paste this into the first post please?)
Updating...got back to it today after a long quiet period (on the wallet that is). Plans are to drop the pan, add a spacer, add the ob cloverleaf/screen, extend the oil pickup, check the 2/6, put on the headers (when they get here), and get the devek sway bar on there..
Devek sway bar ($100)
Devek L2 1.75" headers plus X ($750 shipping tba)
18x11 and 18x8 Turbo Twist wheels ($400) for street driving only
fuel tank strainer ($50)
Total Track car costs as of Jan 2013...$14,046
First and foremost..finding the appropriate starting car....I got lucky (in my mind anyway)...and found a 82 5speed 928 that has GTS flares and an S4 motor installed and was running when I got it...
Cost..$4200
(I'm ignoring transportation to my home and other costs like registration because they will vary greatly)..
new Power Steering pump line $100
Recaro SRD's $800
C&R all aluminum Radiator $500
full S4 suspension/brakes $1500
Full roll cage $1800
38mm bolt on spacer $110
The rest of it was sweat equity..ripping out the interior etc..cleanup of sound deadener panels..fixing leaking PS pump...
that all totals up to :
$9010
that said...my goal was to be around 10K...and I know I'll go over that by some since I bought some stuff I didn't need..but wanted...like the rad....and i know I will eventually get GT cams..and a LSD...but I think for a budget racer..this target/cost is about one should expect to build a 928 tracker..
I do remember that 84 Euro the guy drove out to Sharktoberfest from NJ..had no sunroof...5sp LSD tranny..and S4 engine..all for around 5K...that would be a good starter candidate..
As far as buying a prepped racer to start with..there were a few here...most notably Dean K's car..that Ken Osage bought..for around 15K I think...ready to roll...great deal...and then Constantine sold his Coca Cola 85 track car (minus an engine) for around 12K..Abby is in the process of re-constructing that one...
I'll keep updating this thread as my costs increase...if anyone else has some price point data they are willing to share...feel free to contribute....
Thanks,
OK..update some more...
Kinesis K5's 17x10 and 17x 11 with 275s and 315's Hoosiers.. $1800ish.
SRD Sliders $220
Cobra Suzuka GT fixed back kevlar seat $250.
Sheet of lexan to make side windows and rear quarter windows and rear hatch window.. $134.00
hypercoil 750lb and 500 springs with some misc. perches used with stock sport bilsteins shocks...$250 (used old S4 bits to construct the suspension)
total now..as of Sept 08
$11,664
so..now need to sell the CS rims with 245 hoosiers and the Recaro SRDs..now with sliders...
Cost to be updated once those sell...
As of October 2009...
Sold Recaros SRDs (-900)
new Lizard Short Shifter (100)
new 930S Steering wheel (150)
1990 GT transmission (1500)
MegaSquirt Conversion (1100)
Sold CS rims (-1100)
930 S steering wheel donated to a good cause
Removable steering wheel and hub assembly from Ebay (182)
plexiglas windows, hatch and rear quarters mounting stuff (rivets etc) (50)
Total Track car costs as of June 2010 ... $12746
Update Jan 2013
(weird..can't edit my original post..can a mod paste this into the first post please?)
Updating...got back to it today after a long quiet period (on the wallet that is). Plans are to drop the pan, add a spacer, add the ob cloverleaf/screen, extend the oil pickup, check the 2/6, put on the headers (when they get here), and get the devek sway bar on there..
Devek sway bar ($100)
Devek L2 1.75" headers plus X ($750 shipping tba)
18x11 and 18x8 Turbo Twist wheels ($400) for street driving only
fuel tank strainer ($50)
Total Track car costs as of Jan 2013...$14,046
01-20-2013 | 02:55 PM
#135
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Our bi-annual track events at Spokane Motorsports Park and plan on same this year plus some other events at local tracks (Ridge motorsports park and Oregon Raceway Park).
No "real" racing (still planning on SCCA) and my old slicks are starting to get "really" old... Hopefully by the time I get ready to do some real racing..all the "bugs" will be somewhat sorted..
I've noticed oil pressure issues at Spokane so I'm addressing those first..and still need to find a way to actuate the 90GT diff (Porken suggested one of those rally brakes (hydraulic)) and get the bilsteins revalved to match the springs..
It's still a street driver and I get about 1500 to 2000 miles per year on it (mostly trips across to Spokane)..
No "real" racing (still planning on SCCA) and my old slicks are starting to get "really" old... Hopefully by the time I get ready to do some real racing..all the "bugs" will be somewhat sorted..
I've noticed oil pressure issues at Spokane so I'm addressing those first..and still need to find a way to actuate the 90GT diff (Porken suggested one of those rally brakes (hydraulic)) and get the bilsteins revalved to match the springs..
It's still a street driver and I get about 1500 to 2000 miles per year on it (mostly trips across to Spokane)..