Z,

I am only basing my discussion on math and physics. Bob made me check my assumption of the density of NOS at low temps, and found its more like 33%. remember Bob, the 70 degree F (yes, my number) was based on the temp reduction of the total air charge (mixture of air and NOS being dropped 70f) this means that it would be quite a bit lower if running on almost pure NOS. Even still, is only 33% increased at -50F. Now, you are the one that hasnt corrected even the most basic math or physics here. the point that at the same temp, NOS if just used as an intake air source is 50% more dense than normal air.

Please, try and poke holes in my response to Bob. I think it is more in line and begs for someone knowledgeble on the topic to chime in. the fact that i dont know if the NOS is injected as a liquid vapor or a gas, is a factor of 3 here. Because, if NOS is injected as a liquid vapor, it could have 3x the density of normal air . that could give the theoretical 1350hp.

So, Z, you are math and physics guy now? ok.
NOS as a liquid vapor is 3x the density of air, correct?
NOS has 50% more 02 than air , correct?
I dont want to double count the fact that NOS at the same temp is 2x the density, so i wont. 3x density, with 50% more air is 4.5 x the stock 300hp. correct??

remember, we are talking theoretical here!

mk

 

Hi

That video was using kids Nitrous stuff, I am using Pro racing stuff from Wizards OF Nos

If you want to see what a Nitrous launch looks like with race stuff ,watch this...

Its me last year with only 150 hp of Nitrous doing a demo launch for charity at a Go Karting track...

The start straight was only about 70 yards long so I set my Nitrous to run for ...

2 SECONDS ONLY !!! as I wanted to get round the bend at the end of the straight....

Watch my rear wheels.....thats tyre smoke....

Then compare it to the other video you put on lol

Sorry about the quality of the video but someone did it on a mobile phone...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGmU0I5ffw

All the best Brett

 

This sounds like the plane on the treadmill discussion in OT

 

Hi Mark

My 1000 hp system will be injecting in LIQUID form at 950 psi...through 8 EXTRA Nitrous injectors and extra Fuel through another 8 EXTRA fuel injectors

All the best Brett

 

It's like watching "World's Fastest Indian" but with 4 wheels and a mad ex-Crew Chief instead of Sir Anthony Hopkins.

Whatever happens, as long as no metal deforms in a icky non-elastic way, it should be very interesting to watch.

 

Do we have to explain to you why the NOS was coming out the air box?
This was a few kids playing with nitrous. probaby just a port in the air box.
This is a discussion of putting NOS in the ports, not way down stream by the air box, or even in the intake plennem. Thats why the 160 shot only gave near 100hp for these kids playing with their NOS toy with a rental car.

I have a better video showing this kind of testing methodology.

Mk

 

Z, did you here this??

I dont think it can be liquid coming out of the jets, but certainly it can follow the chart i posted showing 3x the density of air if it comes out as liquid vapor

Mk

 

Brett, what transmission are you using?

 

Mark, it should be liquid at the jet orifice. With enough pressure and a big enough jet you will get some liquid coming out of it, it will boil off almost instantly.

Do you have any hands on experience with any thing bigger than a fifty shot?
Things start to change after 125-150 worth of N2o when you start getting bigger.

BTW, there is no such thing as "liquid vapor" it can not be liquid and a vapor at the same time.

Greg

 

Sure there is.... It' vapor at 100% saturation

 

I am sure the rebuttal argument will be something along those lines.

 

Greg,

Now, finally a good response.

I have no experience with anything greater than a 75 shot, but i have seen the larger shots on TV

so, yes, at the critical point, there are very low temps, and as a vapor, the density is 3x just as it changes states from a liquid to a gas. There is a point where a liquid becomes a vapor. At that point the density goes down drastically, but still much higher than it is at a gas.

Here are the characteristics of what happens in this area:

For NOS:

Liquid phase

Liquid density (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 1222.8 kg/m3
Liquid/gas equivalent (1.013 bar and 15 °C (59 °F)) : 662 vol/vol
Boiling point (1.013 bar) : -88.5 °C
Latent heat of vaporization (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 376.14 kJ/kg
Vapor pressure (at 20 °C or 68 °F) : 58.5 bar
Critical pointCritical temperature : 36.4 °C
Critical pressure : 72.45 bar


Gaseous phase

Gas density (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 3.16 kg/m3
Gas density (1.013 bar and 15 °C (59 °F)) : 1.872 kg/m3
Compressibility Factor (Z) (1.013 bar and 15 °C (59 °F)) : 0.9939



For Air:

Liquid phase

Liquid density (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 875 kg/m3
Boiling point (incipient boiling point) : -194.5 °C
Latent heat of vaporization (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 198.7 kJ/kg
Critical pointCritical temperature : -140.5 °C
Critical pressure : 37.71 bar

Gaseous phase

Gas density (1.013 bar at boiling point) : 3.2 kg/m3
Gas density (1.013 bar and 15 °C (59 °F)) : 1.202 kg/m3
Compressibility Factor (Z) (1.013 bar and 15 °C (59 °F)) : 0.9992
Specific gravity (air = 1) (1.013 bar and 21 °C (70 °F)) : 1
Specific volume (1.013 bar and 21 °C (70 °F)) : 0.833 m3/kg



mk

 

If you're injecting into the intake tract anywhere ahead of an intake valve, it'll be a gas, and not at 950psi. If you're planning on it being a liquid and at 950psi, it would have to be by injecting it directly into the cylinders after the intake valves have closed, and would only be a liquid after the pressure in the entire cylinder had been pressurized to 950psi. If that's the case, I change my prediction. You will make exactly zero horsepower then, and the track officials would probably appeciate it if you waited until everyone else has completed their runs, and also if you brought your own broom and dustpan.

No, that's what I've been explaining to you, or at least trying to explain to you.

 

Greg, the reason its coming out of the air box, is that its a nossil probably placed far upstream of the cylinders. you think its coming out, because there is no more room for the NOS? if it was far enough upstream, it could be the case. One thing i was able to do with my race car fitted with NOS, was run the car with only NOS and fuel with the throttle fully closed. The 50hp shot was enough to drive the car up the turn hilll at Sears Point Raceway. (i did this test when i used NOS to make sure it was working) .

As far as the pressure goes, yes, you are right. It has a 900+ pressure behind it, but as it enters the atmosphere, it changes to vapor first. Remember the critical temp? there will be a point where some of the NOS will be a gas, some vapor and even some a liquid. IN fact, if you crack open one of your old physics books, im sure there is a part in there talking about what happens when CO2 is released from a presurized bottle. It changes to vapor and a gas, as the tempurature drops, some of it even condenses on the nossil and freezes!!
another thing that you are forgetting is that at 950psi, the NOS in the bottle is at ambient temp. when it is released out the nossil, suddenly, the NOS is exposed to ambient pressure, and the temperature drops to its critical tempurature as the NOS remains a dense, saturated vapor. (even condensing and freezing on the nossil as it is released from the bottle)

So, forget about what brett is touting, what he means is that the NOS is injected directly at the ports. The ports will be exposed to a dense shot of very cold NOS vapor, far denser than it would be in a gaseous state. more so due to the fact that NOS 's critical point is at a relatively high tempurature. Only near 80degree C, vs almost double that for air.

mk

 

Simple facts,

There are about 0.045 mols of oxygen per liter of nitrous oxide at STP
There are about 0.0075 mols of O2 per liter of air at STP
Thus, per volume, Nitrous Oxide gas contains about 3 times more atoms of oxygen at STP
Thus, in theory he can burn as much as 3 times more fuel if he ran entirely nitrous oxide.
Thus, his engine can in theory injest a "1000" shot of nitrous.
Who knows what it will do with it once injested though...

I'm tired and I did that math in my head so I probably made mistakes, but feel free to check my work.