Tom. M

Just for you guys following this thread..I'm gonna be at the shop this weekend..all you locals are welcome to stop by. The address is
3029 Unit D
69th Ave W
University Place, WA 98466
253-460-0327

I should be there early Sat..and be there for most of the day. Chuck and JT are planning on putting the wideband O2 sensor in his car and doing some sharktuning. Then possibly a dyno run in Olympia..so should be an interesting day. I'll just be there working on my track car..come on out..hang for a while

FlyingDog

That would result in (maybe) more power and (definitely) more noise.

gruffalo

How is this solved in the existing S/C kit(s) for CIS cars? The supercharger does not come between the two as you describe it...

Dennis Wilson

Don't know if there are any supercharged CIS cars, but the same problems would occur if the lower chamber was pressurized. Bear in mind the air sensor plate to control piston linkage is precision balanced. I've seen a buildup of grime on the sensor plate affect running and this is in a vacuum. Add pressure to the plate and 5 psi pressure on the piston and you have a rich running engine with no lambda system to compensate.

Dennis

Tom. M

I think Carl plumbed in just like the stock air filter and the 928 didn't run abnormally rich. His thought was it was a pressure differential not just slamming the plate down and dumping fuel. I'll search a bit and see what his description of the details were..

gruffalo

-Air flow moves the plate.
-Flow is created by difference in pressure.
-Turbo or SC adds pressure, thus more air passes by the plate.

Can't see how the plate would "care" if the flow comes from N/A or forced induction.
(Am I being dumb now?)

Dennis Wilson

Tom,

He may have adjusted the A/F mixture to compensate. This would be a better option on a supercharger since the boost is constant. On a turbocharged engine a simple A/F adjustment would affect driveability since it isn't always under boost. The differential on the air sensor plate is not the biggest problem. The upward pressure on the piston will reduce the control pressure by 10 to 14% which will have a direct affect on the A/F mixture. I have seen add on turbos that required scrapping the CIS and installation of an EFI sstem like megasquirt.

Dennis

Tim Murphy

Shane is getting a typical Stage 3 designed for the S4 and later cars. Only difference is that his will be specifically designed and tuned for the S3 cars. I expect the performance to be in the same output range as the S4 cars, but we’ll see.

AO

Nice!

Tim Murphy

Ryan mentions that he dislikes centrifugals and really doesn't give much reason for his statement but somehow compared it as being just a step above a roots type blower. This indicates that he believes the centrifugal to be a very inefficient blower, like that of a roots type. Once upon a time that might have been close to the truth but things have changed. I am a big fan of a turbo so don't think I am totally biased here because I am not. Centrifugal SC's have come a long way in the past 10 years with their impeller designs. If I took the impeller off each unit and laid them on a table you would have a difficult time determining which came from which. For a long time, turbo's totally had the edge on the impeller design and finally the centrifugal manufacturers started to pay attention.

As for the looks, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

RyanPerrella

Hey Tim,

I dont really have any valid reasoning I know, but I do like that your REALLY trying hard to get me to see the light. I appreciate that, maybe you could at some point put together a "tuner kit" that is without all the parts of your intake ducting so i could dick around and make it to my liking. Or maybe a stage 3 without your specific intercooler work but include all the hardware from the kit for the intercooler cooling such as the additional radiator, water pump and hook up etc.

True my biggest issue is the look of it, I dont like the detached look of this centrifugal setup. I know its there because of space issues and i do think its a great solution but i dont like the look of the "silver mass right in front of the engine" I also spent time and money getting my fan shroud together and would like to keep it but know that is replaced with your kit. I am only posting this because you ask, but you must realize that this is just something with me and that its just not my favorite way to go. Although I am sure your right with the benefits of the centrifugal I do know that its been the favorite of many tuners and now the likes of Alpina use this in their cars as well. I was thinking I could make a cover of sorts to go from the end of the front bumper up to the end of the SC to cover it if i dont really like it and could opt for that but who knows. I havent looked at your kit setup on an S4 in awhile to see if that would be possible. Another thing I dont like is the asemetry in the engine bay with one side having large metallic tubes and the other not. I could make a second dummy tube for the other side ti balance the look and possibly even cover the tubing in some of the flexible ducting similiar to the GTS or what i have on my car to go with the more stock look. I dont like shiny metal tubing, it looks like honda stuff to me. A flat black finish would be more to my liking I guess.

Well it seems I could do allot of things and end up with something that I really like the look of. If i am going to spend that much money i want it to look good and yeah most of my concerns are cosmetic. You do have i think by far the largest customer base and from what ive heard amazing support, but as the kit stands at current, its not the kit or solution for me. But perhaps it could be at some point.

Cheers

Jim bailey - 928 International

Ryan just keep the hood closed !!! perhaps that is the "beauty" of Tim's kit you do not NEED to have the hood open all the time !

Lizard928

or just get a plexiglass hood and learn to love it

it could be called tough love.

AO

Two solutions (I prefer #1):

#1


#2

shmark

Tim I think you just need to take Ryan for a ride.

On topic, a rear-mount turbo is definitely an interesting idea, especially for those of us without digital engine management. And it would solve Ryan's cosmetic issues as long as it doesn't hang out the back like a set of *****... then again maybe that's a good thing (rear twin-turbo?).

I know it's old-school, but has anyone ever put together a "tuning" process for cars that can't be sharktuned? Fuel pressure, a/f mix, cam timing, ignition timing...a how-to for the analog-challenged? Making dyno adjustments is a little harder, and I want to go baseline my car soon.