New SC Kit for the '85/86
01-25-2008, 07:35 AM
#91
Craic Head
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I was kind of thinking that their test mule for this project would move on from here to other 928MS mods. Last year they introduced the 'true dual exhaust'. They already sell the crossovers with high flow cats, and then they could go with the ST to show what you can do with typical 'bolt-on' mods and a Sharktuning.
01-25-2008, 09:52 AM
#92
Supercharged
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Funny... my magic number is 500 (at the wheels.)
01-25-2008, 10:04 AM
#95
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01-25-2008, 10:13 AM
#97
Supercharged
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Hopefully less than 4 months. Unfortunately my current setup probably won't get me there. My car did 440 RWHP at 6.7 psi which gives me about 22.4 RWHP/psi. If it was strictly linear (which it isn't) at 9.0 psi which I'm running now, I'll maybe hit 490 RWHP. Unfortunately I think I'm out of blower... 
Part of my next upgrade is to move from my 1.7l blower up to a 2.0/2.2 blower. The 2.0 blower should put me at about 515RWHP, or if I go to the 2.2, I should get close to 550RWHP (with the current pulley). 
Nice! 
Part of my next upgrade is to move from my 1.7l blower up to a 2.0/2.2 blower. The 2.0 blower should put me at about 515RWHP, or if I go to the 2.2, I should get close to 550RWHP (with the current pulley).
Originally Posted by davek9
Working from home, isn't modern technolgy a wonderful thing... give me a VPN and I'm in a happy place!
01-25-2008, 11:18 AM
#98
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I'd love to comply, fellas, and add a x-pipe and a this and a that and a whatever and see what is the ceiling. But, this is a customer's car, not mine, and it has to GO. My shop only holds 2 cars at a time (with all the metal fab machinery in it now) and as long as this 85 is in here, the '91 cannot get in to get fitted. I do not have time and the customer is out of money to build this all the way.
The customer has told me to list this car on eBay and sell it for him.
The customer has told me to list this car on eBay and sell it for him.
01-25-2008, 11:23 AM
#99
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Porken - when the spark is quenched by boost, the A/F guage will go rich on the unburnt fuel. Not lean.
All - I knew I was taking a risk laying down the first dyno chart for the '85. I have waited for a LONG time for DR to post his, or Tim to post his, but no luck. So I posted a result on a dead-stock car.
Its an easy thing to beat a previously posted number with more mods. I'm sure now that I've laid the baseline, thats just what they will do. In fact, if I were them, I wouldn't post unless I had a higher number, would you?
This is going to get shot at, and this is going to get beat. I could beat it too, if the customer wanted to spend more money so we could add those upgrades you suggest.
All - I knew I was taking a risk laying down the first dyno chart for the '85. I have waited for a LONG time for DR to post his, or Tim to post his, but no luck. So I posted a result on a dead-stock car.
Its an easy thing to beat a previously posted number with more mods. I'm sure now that I've laid the baseline, thats just what they will do. In fact, if I were them, I wouldn't post unless I had a higher number, would you?
This is going to get shot at, and this is going to get beat. I could beat it too, if the customer wanted to spend more money so we could add those upgrades you suggest.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; 01-26-2008 at 08:02 PM.
01-25-2008, 03:02 PM
#100
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If the plugs were blowing out, then why does the HP then increase? Regardless, misfires would be seen as lean by the wideband, as more unburned oxygen would be present. With the air pump installed, and with the A/F ratio measured at the tailpipe, the actual ratio is likely at least a point richer.
The airpump dumps to the air filter box at WOT, so as to not overheat the cat. With a cat installed, and a tailpipe WBO2, the A/F graph will be even more lean (>.5) than actual.With a tail pipe sensor, there will be an offset between the A/F and the HP graphs, as the exhaust is delayed. Note that the HP/TQ take a dip a few hundred rpm before the A/F. (chart)
I'm not so sure about that. I've had some misfire situations (just before I pulled the engine), and I'm pretty sure my WBO2 went rich... very rich. If we followed your logic, if there was a misfire (or just poor ignition) the car would continue to add fuel which could exacerbate the condition, right?
The LH O2 is not active with the WOT switch triggered. At cruise, a misfire will make the LH richen the mixture.
BTW: your O2 sensor(s) may be contaminated by coolant.
The spark may be killed by excessive fuel, but the WBO2 will see it as big gulps of unburned air. It is not a gasoline sensor.
01-25-2008, 03:21 PM
#101
Developer
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Porken - please compare my A/F ratio line to the one posted on #57 of this thread. I'm surprised you had nothing to say about that one.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; 01-25-2008 at 03:47 PM.
01-25-2008, 05:07 PM
#102
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The chart in (post #57) isn't particulary well tuned. The first dip in the A/F is likely from the performance chip, which overfuels on acceleration.
(My old 86.5 dyno, comparing stock to eBay chips. {STP, -10 for SAE})
The second dip I'm not sure about, because it's there pre and post boost.
Yours is nice and flat...up to ~5300 rpm. Looks almost like the boost is blowing off there, recovers, then again at 6000. (post #37)
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm saying your kit is bad, I'm just pointing out what I see as 'inconsistentcies'.
For example:
317 - 249 = 68 + (68*.18) = 80.24 CHP
Assuming you are measuring the boost at a good point to get 4.5 PSI, it's 17.8 HP/PSI.
The HP peak is at 6000, then it drops off sharply. If the drop is from the boost regulator, it's possible the actual boost was ~5 PSI at the peak.
(My old 86.5 dyno, comparing stock to eBay chips. {STP, -10 for SAE})
The second dip I'm not sure about, because it's there pre and post boost.
Yours is nice and flat...up to ~5300 rpm. Looks almost like the boost is blowing off there, recovers, then again at 6000. (post #37)
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm saying your kit is bad, I'm just pointing out what I see as 'inconsistentcies'.
For example:
Our Stage 1 SC kit on the 16v K-Jet yields 80 HP from 6 psi, or 13.3 HP per PSI
Our Stage 1 SC kit on the 16v L-Jet yields 104 HP from 6 psi, or 17.3 HP per PSI
Our Stage 1 SC kit on the 16v LH-Jet yields 80 HP from 5 psi, or 16 HP per PSI
This Stage 1 SC kit on a 32v LH-Jet yielded 85 HP from 4.5 psi, or 18.8 HP per PSI
Thats the most improvement per pound of boost of any of these non-intercooled kits. All those numbers are stock injectors, stock exhaust too.
Our Stage 1 SC kit on the 16v L-Jet yields 104 HP from 6 psi, or 17.3 HP per PSI
Our Stage 1 SC kit on the 16v LH-Jet yields 80 HP from 5 psi, or 16 HP per PSI
This Stage 1 SC kit on a 32v LH-Jet yielded 85 HP from 4.5 psi, or 18.8 HP per PSI
Thats the most improvement per pound of boost of any of these non-intercooled kits. All those numbers are stock injectors, stock exhaust too.
Assuming you are measuring the boost at a good point to get 4.5 PSI, it's 17.8 HP/PSI.
The HP peak is at 6000, then it drops off sharply. If the drop is from the boost regulator, it's possible the actual boost was ~5 PSI at the peak.
01-25-2008, 06:59 PM
#103
Three Wheelin'
Ken,
You are correct. A misfire for any reason will cause a lean reading on the WBO2 meter.
Here is some information on how Bosch sensors work.
http://wbo2.com/lsu/oxygen13-17.pdf
The wide band explanation is on page 3.
http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuworks.htm
http://wbo2.com/lsu/position.htm
You are correct. A misfire for any reason will cause a lean reading on the WBO2 meter.
Here is some information on how Bosch sensors work.
http://wbo2.com/lsu/oxygen13-17.pdf
The wide band explanation is on page 3.
http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuworks.htm
http://wbo2.com/lsu/position.htm
Oops...this is partially wrong. The airpump dumps to the air filter box at WOT, so as to not overheat the cat. With a cat installed, and a tailpipe WBO2, the A/F graph will be even more lean (>.5) than actual.
With a tail pipe sensor, there will be an offset between the A/F and the HP graphs, as the exhaust is delayed. Note that the HP/TQ take a dip a few hundred rpm before the A/F. (chart)
Is it the oxygen part of the sensor you have trouble with?
The LH O2 is not active with the WOT switch triggered. At cruise, a misfire will make the LH richen the mixture.
BTW: your O2 sensor(s) may be contaminated by coolant.
The spark may be killed by excessive fuel, but the WBO2 will see it as big gulps of unburned air. It is not a gasoline sensor.
The airpump dumps to the air filter box at WOT, so as to not overheat the cat. With a cat installed, and a tailpipe WBO2, the A/F graph will be even more lean (>.5) than actual.With a tail pipe sensor, there will be an offset between the A/F and the HP graphs, as the exhaust is delayed. Note that the HP/TQ take a dip a few hundred rpm before the A/F. (chart)
Is it the oxygen part of the sensor you have trouble with?
The LH O2 is not active with the WOT switch triggered. At cruise, a misfire will make the LH richen the mixture.
BTW: your O2 sensor(s) may be contaminated by coolant.
The spark may be killed by excessive fuel, but the WBO2 will see it as big gulps of unburned air. It is not a gasoline sensor.
