Are 928 Top End Speeds Getting Faster?
11-22-2006, 11:57 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
yes, ive thought of it. maybe i could have one of the road racers do the run for me! I would do the 180mph run, but someone else would have to see how much faster. I like going fast next to K walls!
MK
MK
Originally Posted by moon928
Its too bad the 20th anniversary of Al Holbert setting the record at Bonneville has come and gone without something to mark the date. It would have made a great venue for a 928 gathering- or pilgrimage. (No pun intended)
Mark have you ever thought of bringing the old girl back to the flats?
Mark have you ever thought of bringing the old girl back to the flats?
11-22-2006, 01:16 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by danglerb
The well sorted out comment is a red herring, if I don't agree my car is automatically not well sorted out enough, and I disagree at least some of them were very nicely sorted out. As fine or "sorted out" as a 928 might be, its no substitute for knowing how to drive at speed, even if it "feels" like it is.
You think I said something fishy, so let's try this: Have you ever driven a well-sorted 928 at any speed whatsoever?
I'm guessing you haven't.
11-22-2006, 01:38 PM
#34
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Originally Posted by SharkSkin
If you're talking about how other cars feel at 125 MPH, fine -- but you're in the 928 forum. The context of your statement can be assumed to be in reference to 928s and a 928 in good shape does not have any problem sticking to the road or going where you point it at 125 mph, assuming that isn't too fast for the road. One of the design goals was to replace air travel in Europe and from the very beginning they were designed to run flat-out, top speed all day long only interrupted by fuel stops.
You think I said something fishy, so let's try this: Have you ever driven a well-sorted 928 at any speed whatsoever?
I'm guessing you haven't.
You think I said something fishy, so let's try this: Have you ever driven a well-sorted 928 at any speed whatsoever?
I'm guessing you haven't.
He reminds me of the guy, few months ago, that was banned for trying to instigate arguments about some imaginary spark plugs designs and crap like that.
11-22-2006, 02:09 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by sweanders
Brett, would you be willing to bet that you'll crack 200 without an engine failure?
Ummm...lol..well if it goes bang.....I will find a 5.4 GTS engine...put that in...ADD Nitrous and do it all again ...
All the best Brett
PORSCHE 928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH, K&N, WIZARDS OF NOS - NITROUS KIT 150 HP JETTING - 505 BHP / 500 FT LBS TORQUE
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR - Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk
11-22-2006, 02:10 PM
#36
Drifting
Mark, when did this 180 Nardo run take place and is there any publication of it?
928 feels stronger and more solid as the needle inceases, amazing build quality.
928 feels stronger and more solid as the needle inceases, amazing build quality.
11-22-2006, 02:14 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by atb
Brett,
How are you going to attempt your top speed run?
Do you get the car up to N/A top speed and then hit the nitrous, or are you on the nitrous from the beginning. How long (time and distance) do you think it will take to get to 225mph? And once you get there, how long do you plan on staying there.
I think you're going to need some aero work and some "Y" rated tires to get there.
How are you going to attempt your top speed run?
Do you get the car up to N/A top speed and then hit the nitrous, or are you on the nitrous from the beginning. How long (time and distance) do you think it will take to get to 225mph? And once you get there, how long do you plan on staying there.
I think you're going to need some aero work and some "Y" rated tires to get there.
Well the longest runway in the UK (where it will be done) is only 2 miles long...I can get a rolling start to around 60 around the last sliproad before the straight...THEN I will hit the Nitrous...I will have QUAD bottles and maybe Nitrogen boost for them so I dont lose pressure....so I will be running around 300 to 400 hp of extra Nitrous....around 700 hp in total.....from around 60 mph..to 200 ish ..hopefully
All the best Brett
PORSCHE 928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH, K&N, WIZARDS OF NOS - NITROUS KIT 150 HP JETTING - 505 BHP / 500 FT LBS TORQUE
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR - Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk
11-22-2006, 02:22 PM
#38
Drifting
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People are always suspiscious of Nitrous. I don't want to derail this thread, but a stock, nitrous injected engine is no more likely to blow than a supercharged stock engine.
You have to remember that it adds extra air, and extra fuel. So there is no issue with going lean if it's a wet system. Not to mention it is very cold, which is like an instant intercooler. So even if it did go lean, the charge temperature is very low. Nitrous is very safe. The real issue is how much power the stock internals can take. And unlike the supercharged cars, which hit their limit because too much boost blows the head gaskets, nitrous will not have that problem. It will just put out more and more power. So the only concern is how much power the stock crank, rods, and pistons can take. And there are several 500rwhp supercharged 928s with stock engines that have been running for a long time. So it should be able to take 600 or 700 horsepower for a short time. And the drivetrain should be able to take it too, because it won't be hitting off the line, with tons of torque. It will be smoothly applied at high speeds.
You have to remember that it adds extra air, and extra fuel. So there is no issue with going lean if it's a wet system. Not to mention it is very cold, which is like an instant intercooler. So even if it did go lean, the charge temperature is very low. Nitrous is very safe. The real issue is how much power the stock internals can take. And unlike the supercharged cars, which hit their limit because too much boost blows the head gaskets, nitrous will not have that problem. It will just put out more and more power. So the only concern is how much power the stock crank, rods, and pistons can take. And there are several 500rwhp supercharged 928s with stock engines that have been running for a long time. So it should be able to take 600 or 700 horsepower for a short time. And the drivetrain should be able to take it too, because it won't be hitting off the line, with tons of torque. It will be smoothly applied at high speeds.
11-22-2006, 02:23 PM
#39
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Hi Brett
I hope you will get somebody to video that; I would love to see the effect when the nitrous comes in.
Marton
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around 60 around the last sliproad before the straight...THEN I will hit the Nitrous
Marton
11-22-2006, 02:24 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
one of the early magazine articles talk about the March '86 Nardo, Italy run where they ran this car at 180mph. at Boneville later in august, the could only run 172mph (flying kilometer and mile). it was said, wheel spin was the limitation. I wonder if mods could have helped this, but then again, it was a production run, with no mods, except lowering the car and removing the mirrors, etc. (hey, those are mods!)' I think they should have used studded snow tires!
MK
MK
Originally Posted by tv
Mark, when did this 180 Nardo run take place and is there any publication of it?
928 feels stronger and more solid as the needle inceases, amazing build quality.
928 feels stronger and more solid as the needle inceases, amazing build quality.
11-22-2006, 02:28 PM
#41
Race Director
http://www.openroadracing.com/html/200_mph_club.html
209/210 in the devek white car back in august 99....this same engine now lives on in the "beast" with far more power and similar or better aerodynamics.....Tim & Cheryl should easily join the 200 club this season.....IMNSHO I think they will break the old record of 210 quite easily! Closer to 220 is more like it! But 600whp will do that (my guess of what it will make next year!)
147 in your S3 is pretty good.....they also have the 2.20 rear end and I think the offical top speed was 155mph for S3's.....so 147 on a short straight in a 20 year old car isn't bad at all!! Techincally S4's will go about 165mph (+/- depending on stick-auto)....I've only had mine to 140mph....but that was in THIRD gear!! It was still pulling hard & got up there way too easy.....still looking for the right road to really wind it out.....maybe ORR next year!
On paper if I got an S/C at about 430whp...with my 2.20 rear end and tall 26.4" tires (265/40-18) I should be real close to 200!
209/210 in the devek white car back in august 99....this same engine now lives on in the "beast" with far more power and similar or better aerodynamics.....Tim & Cheryl should easily join the 200 club this season.....IMNSHO I think they will break the old record of 210 quite easily! Closer to 220 is more like it! But 600whp will do that (my guess of what it will make next year!)
147 in your S3 is pretty good.....they also have the 2.20 rear end and I think the offical top speed was 155mph for S3's.....so 147 on a short straight in a 20 year old car isn't bad at all!! Techincally S4's will go about 165mph (+/- depending on stick-auto)....I've only had mine to 140mph....but that was in THIRD gear!! It was still pulling hard & got up there way too easy.....still looking for the right road to really wind it out.....maybe ORR next year!
On paper if I got an S/C at about 430whp...with my 2.20 rear end and tall 26.4" tires (265/40-18) I should be real close to 200!
11-22-2006, 02:30 PM
#42
Addict
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Here's my experience driving three different 928's at open road races:
1979 928 A/T: Drove in the 110mph class, with a 124mph tech limit. Totally stable at speeds up to 124mph. Didn't have to worry about slowing for any corners on the entire course. Hard to average 110mph, man that is SLOW!
1980 928 5-spd, with 84 Euro S engine: First event in 125mph class with 140mph tech limit. Top speed during race was 138mph. Felt stable up to 130mph, somewhat "floaty" at 138mph. Sorta like the front end was light. Nothing to worry about though, just concentrate on easy inputs. I compare it to riding with George in his 1990 928-S4 at 160+mph. Following year again in the 125mph class, installed home-made 5 inch front air dam. Felt much better at 138mph, front end felt a bit more planted.
1987 928-S4: First event this past summer entered 130mph class, with 168mph tech limit. Slightly lower ride height, but still in factory specs, with slightly higher than spec caster on front wheels. Totally stable up to 155mph. Again, concentrated on easy inputs, didn't need much correction. Slow acceleration in 5th gear above 145mph, topped out at 155mph. Absolutely no problems at all at any speed, stable through corners up to 135mph.
I've also navigated for George (before supercharger) in the 140mph class, which was hard to average at stock power level and at 6000+ ft elevation. Again, it felt somewhat floaty at 165mph, and can be seen on George's video at the time. I've been in Tim and Cheryl's Beast up to 165mph, and it was ROCK SOLID, but then again, it has a $$$$$$$ suspension! Bill and I aborted the Bonneville event last summer due to bad shocks/springs on his 1989 supercharged 928-S4....good decision on Bill's part, ain't no way we could run 120mph, let alone the 145mph class we had entered.
So that's my experience. I highly recommend these ORR events, the 928 is a very capable car in this evironment.
Rich
1979 928 A/T: Drove in the 110mph class, with a 124mph tech limit. Totally stable at speeds up to 124mph. Didn't have to worry about slowing for any corners on the entire course. Hard to average 110mph, man that is SLOW!
1980 928 5-spd, with 84 Euro S engine: First event in 125mph class with 140mph tech limit. Top speed during race was 138mph. Felt stable up to 130mph, somewhat "floaty" at 138mph. Sorta like the front end was light. Nothing to worry about though, just concentrate on easy inputs. I compare it to riding with George in his 1990 928-S4 at 160+mph. Following year again in the 125mph class, installed home-made 5 inch front air dam. Felt much better at 138mph, front end felt a bit more planted.
1987 928-S4: First event this past summer entered 130mph class, with 168mph tech limit. Slightly lower ride height, but still in factory specs, with slightly higher than spec caster on front wheels. Totally stable up to 155mph. Again, concentrated on easy inputs, didn't need much correction. Slow acceleration in 5th gear above 145mph, topped out at 155mph. Absolutely no problems at all at any speed, stable through corners up to 135mph.
I've also navigated for George (before supercharger) in the 140mph class, which was hard to average at stock power level and at 6000+ ft elevation. Again, it felt somewhat floaty at 165mph, and can be seen on George's video at the time. I've been in Tim and Cheryl's Beast up to 165mph, and it was ROCK SOLID, but then again, it has a $$$$$$$ suspension! Bill and I aborted the Bonneville event last summer due to bad shocks/springs on his 1989 supercharged 928-S4....good decision on Bill's part, ain't no way we could run 120mph, let alone the 145mph class we had entered.
So that's my experience. I highly recommend these ORR events, the 928 is a very capable car in this evironment.
Rich
11-22-2006, 02:32 PM
#43
Drifting
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The real issue is how much power the stock internals can take.
there was a guy in UK who burnt out his clutch with only circa 400HP; admittedly from a standing start.
Then once you succeed to get the power cleanly through the drivetrain can you stop the tires spinning too much?
Anyway will be fun to see
Marton
11-22-2006, 02:53 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
How can I resist getting myself into trouble on a bonus topic.
I totally agree that a 928 was built for speed and "feels" great at speed, and its possibly one of the best production cars at speed, but no car is safer to drive at 150 than it is at 80. 928's allow drivers to feel safe as speeds they do not have the skills to be at if any sort of problem arises.
Nitrous has two problems, even fuel distribution between all cylinders due to intake systems that were designed as dry, and exceeding the power limits of the engine. Done right and within limits and its fine, but more than a few people are willing to roll the dice a few seconds at a time on the power limits of the engine.
I'm a bit lazy, but sometime in the next week I will dig around and post the VIN numbers of my 81 928, and 86 944T, maybe somebody still has them. Maybe as a bonus when I meet some of you I will wear one my Porsche hands on experience hats.
I totally agree that a 928 was built for speed and "feels" great at speed, and its possibly one of the best production cars at speed, but no car is safer to drive at 150 than it is at 80. 928's allow drivers to feel safe as speeds they do not have the skills to be at if any sort of problem arises.
Nitrous has two problems, even fuel distribution between all cylinders due to intake systems that were designed as dry, and exceeding the power limits of the engine. Done right and within limits and its fine, but more than a few people are willing to roll the dice a few seconds at a time on the power limits of the engine.
I'm a bit lazy, but sometime in the next week I will dig around and post the VIN numbers of my 81 928, and 86 944T, maybe somebody still has them. Maybe as a bonus when I meet some of you I will wear one my Porsche hands on experience hats.
11-22-2006, 03:00 PM
#45
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no car is safer to drive at 150 than it is at 80
80 mph is not a safe speed to drive. The statistical difference between the chance of dying in an 80 mph accident versus chance of dying in a 150 mph accident are mathematically insignificant.
Look at the United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) documents on this topic
Marton