tv

I have never seen a magazine test involving the S2, euro 928, and the S2 will do what Normy says.

Mark

Why do people keep wanting to compare these 2 cars...often creating a pissing contest between the owners of 2 GREAT cars. (If someone is posting the 'faster' question in a tacit way of saying "Which should I buy?...the answer = BOTH!!!)

"Which is faster?"...in what context? 0-60? 1/4 mile? top end? AX, long road course? What MY?

EASIER QUESTION - which came first - chicken or egg?

As far as MY definition of faster (which would be TOP END)....I will defer to the S4 Holbert car!

Carl Fausett

I get to factor this every year. My son owns a 1987 951, I have a 1978 928 with 1988 engine and drive train. We get going on back-roads every year it seems.
The best 951's are 1986 and newer... bigger turbos, better designs, etc.

We started this annual event when he owned a stock 86 951 and I'd run it against my stock 78 928. I had the 0-40 MPH, and he had the rest.

Then he bought an 87 (bigger turbo than 86) and I supercharged my 928.
I still had the 0-40, and now the 0-60 too.... pretty even after that, but he took me handily above 100 MPH. Both of us had tired motors that needed refreshing.
I had short legs in aln old '78 928 gearbox too.

Both of us have fresh motors this year, and we are driving to Road America tomorrow to watch the RA Challenge. I am sure we will be tested again.

THIS time he has lightened his car a little down to 3100 pounds, and exchanged his turbo to an aftermarket unit that is 150% larger. Nikasiled his block, new pistons and rings, etc. He is running 15 psi of boost.

I have swapped into a 1988 Transaxle with longer legs than the old 78 Gear ratio, and a freshly sleeved 5.1L 928 running 11 psi of boost. And I have lightened down to 3100 pounds also. I might have him..... we'll see.

So - in answer to your question.... I have run a 928 against a 951 A LOT and always won the 0-30 or 0-50, but never won overall. They are light and they are fast. Tomorrow may be a new day, tho.

Here is what I've got:
http://www.928motorsports.com/928sc.html
Here is what he's got:
http://www.928motorsports.com/951.html

GOBOGIE

I was about to say something about this statement (if you were referring to stock cars this is not true) but you were probably referring to the specific car your son has, which does have a larger aftermarket (sweet looking) turbo on it.

You're on

JET951

well i just wrapped up the supersprint and motokhana championship over here, i am in class c. on power to weight the 928 gts is faster then me and yet at the track i am faster then him, and this is on many tracks. here are some links

http://www.porscheclub.org.au/pdf/06...EC_Results.pdf
http://www.porscheclub.org.au/pdf/20..._Champ_YTD.pdf
http://www.porscheclub.org.au/clubev...mpetition.html

as a few people have said though, they are two different types of cars and i dont think for that reason they can be compared.

mark kibort

It is so hard to compare times in the stock classes, as the talent level is usually all over the map. in the US, there are guys like Chris Cervelli who has a very built up C class car and he runs very close to what i run in the holbert car.

trust me, there is no "boxster or "cayman" that would ever be able to keep up with him. However, a GTS in C form would have no chance, and neither would a 951. PCA has a formula for racing and timing trialing that is really not very logical or fair. great for similar platforms, but incredibly unfair and usless for comparing other platforms with each other. the 928 is a great example of this.

what they (PCA and to a certain extent POC) forget, is that racing (even time trialing) is made of of 2 major performance components. (HP to weight and absolute weight) Ignoring absolute weight is illogical and creates useless classing. how is a C class GTS with 600 more lbs (think of 3 large football players in your car) vs a 993! (993 at 280hp 928gts at 350hp) . Just an example. doesnt take an Enstein to figure out race cars have to brake and corner as well as accelerate.

anyway, the reason a 928 is a better platform in near stock form than a 944 turbo, is that it can be faster on the track after a complete gutting for the reasons i mentioned. 2700lbs, bigger tires, wider track, better suspension geoometry, and a more durable engine, as well as better HP to weight .

Stock to Stock, the 951 has the edge due to the weight.

when you go modifying, there is nothing that even compares to the 928. look at even the kelly Moss 944 turbo powered by a 928 750hp engine. still couldnt run faster than anderson at laguna! The speedvision 944turbos and the monsters from LA, (running 1:44) ran ether slower than my time in the holbert car (1:40) or near the same time.(i think the "phone guys" 944 turbo ran near 1:40 but was a 360rwhp, lightweight 944 turbo driven by Dwayn Dement if i remember correctly)

The point is, all the porsches have some great qualities. bang for the buck rides in the 928 when converted to a race car hands down. 944s can be built up and fast, and so can all the 911s.

In stock form, there are trade offs with performance because of weights of the individual models. DONT look at pCA to compare and give equality with their classing system, because it doesnt! POC uses the base formula from PCA for their classing system and then a complex algorithm for mods with the race cars. (however flawed from the start due to the PCA classing system) great for the 911s, but hardly fair for the 944s and 928s.

Mk

John Welch

Its like my friend said after driving both of my cars. He was telling a friend that when you floor the 951, there's a slight lull, and the car gets up and takes off. When you floor the 928, there was no lull, the car just GOES!

Too completely different animals. Right now, I'm driving my '86.5 more than the 951, but I find myself cruising at about 10mph more in the 928 than the 951 which isn't a good thing... They're both great cars. Well, at least I think so.

H2

Mark,

Great and informed summary assessment. Thanks. I got more out of what you said thas any two articles from the car mags. And it's real life experience based...not vendor hyped.

Thanks,

Harvey

Carl Fausett

Vendor hyped? That would make more sense if I was trying ot sell something as a result of the post. But, as I was not selling anything - just answering the authors question based on what I have seen (like others), where is the hype?

SMTCapeCod

Guess this guy made up his mind
928 - 951 trade from For Sale

heinrich

Normy is correct, a stock S2 will eat a stock 951. But is it a fair comparison? What about a 952?

JET951

what about a 952? a 952 is a right hand drive 951.

User 41221

I have a pretty well modded 951, a bone stock 968 cab and an '82 928, so I would like to think that I am qualified to speak on this thread, except I think most of the relevant points have already been made.

1) The driver makes such a big difference in how a car performs, that the car itself (at least when choosing between a 928 and a 951) becomes somewhat irrelevant, imo.

2) Throw enough money at anything and you can completely transform it. Just look at Michael Jackson if you need an example!

3) Its hard to make a bad choice here. All three (I'm putting the 968 in the mix) have good and bad points. I drive all three regularly and for different purposes. If I had to keep just one Porsche, I would actually keep my '84 944NA (how's that for a controversial statement?!). It does everything I want and is more balanced than any of my other cars. Power isn't everything, at least in my world.

4) Ultimately, if money were no object, I'd have to say that a 928 should have more potential, due to the cubic displacement advantage. In reality, 951's are fairly disposable (generally more readily available and cheaper than 928's) and show up at the track more as a result. And they can go plenty fast, too!

5) A 944/951/968 can be extremely reliable IF you do proper maintenance on it. Parts cost a good bit less as well. I have driven a boatload of miles in various 944/951/968 over the last (gulp!) twelve years and have not been plagued by demons on any of the cars that I took the time to care for, Its amazing how many bad 944 "professional" mechanics there are, and how poorly most 944's get treated. I've only owned one 928, so I won't speak on that subject relative to 928's except to say that parts do cost more and I wasn't overwhelmed with the quality of some of the work done by the mechanics that the PO (a nice guy and Rennlister, by the way!) had done.

This is a 928 forum, so most folks here are liable to pick the 928. There is the same thread going on the 951 forum, again with fairly predictable results. Its nice that BOTH threads have been very objective and friendly towards each other for a change. Buy both if you can!

Regards,

heinrich

You've got that wrong.

heinrich

OK technically I've got it wrong but I do believe you know what I meant. 944 turbo S. Greater displacement and turbo.