Bill Ball

Maybe some of you recall my nasty comments about the internally adjustable Konis I installed on my 89 in place of the original sport shocks (car has sport suspension option). Out of the box, set a little over half way, I found they had terribly inadequate dampening. The car floated like a Cadillac and was FAR worse at negotiating my favorite test twisties than the original shocks.

I put up with this for close to 3 years as most people thought I was crazy - Konis are regarded as rather stiff. Of course, they had not ridden in my car. But comparing the dampening by the good old push-down-on-the fender test showed other people with similar shocks had far more dampening. So, I bought the on-car adjustment tool from Carl Fausset and set them full hard. That only made the ride harsh, but with no better control and the same inadequate compression dampening, of course.

Not quite sure what was wrong, I drove the car. I've had the car at sustained 165-170 without a lot of problems, although the car would wallow a bit over bumps and require a lot of concentration to keep pointed. That was until yesterday...

While doing some practice runs on the course for the Bonneville 100, it became crystal clear the car was undriveable over 140 MPH. Any slight side-breeze pushed me unpredictably around. Any road irregularity sent the car wallowing from side to side. Approaching turns that I previously could take at 140-150 lead to the same direction-changing wallow at anything over 120.

A parking lot fender push test confirmed that the shocks were gone. Boing-boing. I should have realized they had deteriorated when Marc Thomas pushed on the rear a few weeks ago and said I should turn up the dampening --- Uhuh, they were already full hard.

I withdrew from the race and went home. My navigator agreed the car was too unsafe. Dave Lomas and Garrity, 120 miles away, offered to change out the shocks, but getting it done in time was going to be a hassle, at the very least, and I might really have some other problems contributing to this besides the shocks. (SINCERE thanks to Dave and Garrity from the generous offers.)

So, here I am with stock sport springs, Konis that were probably bad from Day One (how does that happen?) and are now scary at high speed.

- Should I have the Konis "repaired" under warranty, expecting they will then be OK?
- Should I have them valved stiffer? Will that cost me extra over a simple repair?
- Should I junk them (or fix them under warranty and sell them on eBay) and go with Bilsteins?
- Should I by a complete coil-over set up? Which one?

I want the control I used to have in the extreme twisties and stability at 165-170 with the ability to take high-speed sweepers without a lot of drama.

FlyingDog

Fix and sell.

How about Ledas? I think they're around $2000 vs $1250 for Bilstens and Eibachs. It might be worth it for ORR. I'm not sure how much Bilsteins ($850) and Hypercoils (?) would be, but that's what I'm thinking of for my car when I get around to shocks and springs.

Ed Hughes

They sure don't seem like they've lived up to the Koni reputation. I'd go the warranty route. Other than the inconvenience, what do you have to lose? You invested good money in them...

the flyin' scotsman

Given the work effort to R&R the shocks I'd go with a new set; fix the ones you have under warranty and sell them...........they have a problem that may never give you the conifidence you had before.

Now which new ones?............I do like my Bilstiens

lorenolson888

Bill..

my AC still work and I just put new brakes and a new devek radiator in friday and sat...

You can drive my car with bilstein eibach setup... freshly done about 9 months ago... right now I love it.... great in the corners not too much time past 125 mph though...

now that they have about 1000 miles on them the car drive pretty nice ... though a bit harsh on real bad roads like 1010..and stretches of 680 though sunol...

LO

Bill Ball

Buying Bilsteins or a coil-over set and swapping them in would give me no downtime, as opposed to fixing or revalving stiffer the Konis and reinstalling them.

I've thought about more sophisticated shocks, like Ledas or Penskes. I would be thrilled with those, but I don't see my driving as extreme enough to really need them - perhaps I am wrong.

George Suennen has external Konis and stock springs and the car handles like a dream. That's what took me in that direction, with the understanding that the internal Konis were the same shock as he had converted to external. I was told originally that his Konis were not revalved. Now, George says that is not true. If so, I could be happy with revalved Konis. Note also that George's car is about 50mm lower than mine. Regardless of ride height, his shocks are better, mine are shot.

IcemanG17

Bill
Your Konis have never been right....it does seem odd that you just happened to get 4 bad Konis all at once....what are the odds of that...... My thoughts are get a bilstein-eibach setup (Loren I would love to ride in your 928 too...since that is the setup I want oneday).....send the konis out to be rebuilt (for free hopefully)......then you could sell those with the sport springs or even try them out.....then sell the set you don't like......a little more pricey...but then you don't have any downtime either?

Let me know when your gonna but the new springs-shocks on......

BTW did you fix the vac leak yet?

Bill Ball

Exactly. None of this makes any sense. Clearly I have always had far less dampening with these Konis than either Geroge Suennen or Tim Dey. If theirs were revalved stiffer and I didn't know that, then that is a possible explanation. Still, I can't see how ANYONE would think the Konis I got were worth a dime from day one. Hard to explain, as you say.

Yeah, getting a new coil-over set would give me some options. No, I have not addressed the vac leak yet, although we had terrific AC on the whole trip despite 101F temps.

cfc928gt

Bill, is it possible the just the fronts were bad and not the backs? I had a set of Konis that also grenaded on me. They ended out replacing them rather than rebuilding them and the new ones work great. Like yours my old ones were never right. FWIW, I have bilsteins on the back and the internally adjustable konis on the front and weltmiester progressive springs which are very similar to eibachs. I was going to put on bilsteins in the front but I drove a friends car who has progressive springs and bilsteins and I felt like his front end floated. Might be that the shocks are worn out but they don't have all that many miles on them but his car didn't handle nearly as well as mine. Did I mention one of my rear bilsteins with only 5,000 miles is leaking?

sweanders

Ledas are good when they work but there has been a lot of quality problems with them, I would go with Bilstein from personal experience on 944's and 968's.

Regarding shocks it doesn't really matter which brand it is as long as they have a good dampening curve and good quality seals.

RyanPerrella

Interesting people posting of some poor shocks out of the box

If you race the car which from your first post i suspect you do, i would go with the bilsteins as they are supposed to be fairly easy to rebuild. In that there are parts available for them and they can be revalved.

I am dissapointed to hear that you have a leaking bilstein with only 5000 miles on it. Why is that? I wonder if they were assembled years ago and have just been sitting on some shelves for the past couple years, or why that could happen. I know they are warrantied, ive seen them listed asa lifetime warranty for the bilsteins, but not sure what that warranty replacement entails.

I have my finger on the trigger to buy bilsteins but i am somewhat suspect with this thread with not only koni users havign issues with what should be NEW parts but also with your comment on the bilsteins.

Interesting

RyanPerrella

oh

and if someone were considering paying what the ledas costm i would suggest Moton in a heart beat. Tehy have terrific support and are very well regarded in the 911 community. Ive heard the Leda and JRZ more so have terrible support, apparently the have a full staffed sales team but no one in the parts department. FWIW

sublimate

My guess is your Konis came valved wrong - maybe they screwed up and gave you one valved for a much lighter car like a 944. The would explain all 4 of them being "bad". And the extra effort of damping a heavier car than they were intended for shortened their life considerably.

dr bob

Bill--

Borrow a set of something for interim use while you have the Koni's reworked.

My personal experience with Koni has been stellar, although I don't have them on the 928. They have always been quick turnaround or replace with new when a rebuild was needed. Or they just like to make the old ones look just like new whenever they pass through their doors.

We had a discussion here (at the house...) a couple weeks ago about the perils of lower ride height. One is the sensation that the car handles better, with the compression metering stiffer at the shorter compressed length on the shock. From that, one would have to suggest that the installed length is something the rebuilder would need to know to get the damping curve right. It might also explain a little odf the effect you get riding in George S' car with the lower ride height. All just stuff to think about.

Bill Ball

Yeah, that occurred to me. That's what they felt like out of the box. Now they are even worse.