Is there a copyright on 20 year old code? If so, who has it? Prove it.
Glenn

 

Chip tuning/reading has been around for other marks of Porsches for while.
Gee..I don think chip tuning or "microcode disassembly" even occurs on Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Hondas..Toyotas..etc etc.

Anway, enough of the negativity...onward.


How long would an average tuning session take?
Would it be better done on a dyno or on an open stretch of road where repeated consistant results could be had?
Say you toss in bigger injectors and have at the program and the lap top. Is there a set up or protocol on how the car is tested or ran during the modification to the chips/maps?

ie: start car cold and idle...
....start car warm and idle....
....make 3 runs from xrpm to y rpm...etc etc


Ive only read about this stuff and have always been fascinated on how it is actually done. It seems to be done on the dyno mostly?.

 

"Gee..I don think chip tuning or "microcode disassembly" even occurs on Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Hondas..Toyotas..etc etc. " - Tony -

So!!!!!!

Still doesn't eliminate the fact of the misuse of intellectual property.
There're proprietary algorithms used by the OEMs that have value
which makes disassembly, use, or publishing a violation technically.

 

Copyright protection does not extend to resale or private use. I own the LH and I can change it or give it to somebody else to change for me. The rest is for John, but I can tell you reverse engineering or disassembly to understand how the code works is not illegal. Porsche fusses over trademark violations, but probably couldn't care less that John is messing with 20 year old LH brains. Some light reading:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/journals...l8/McManis.pdf

 

Hi Tony,

>Would it be better done on a dyno or on an open stretch of road where >repeated consistant results could be had?

I would always prefer a road test vs dyno, it is more realistic as IMHO a dyno cannot truly recreate what is actually happening on the road. Thinks like aero drag, uphill/downhill loads, off throttle, part throttle, WOT, the effect of the "ram air" system, etc. cannot be accurately created on a dyno.

>Say you toss in bigger injectors and have at the program and the lap top.
> Is there a set up or protocol on how the car is tested or ran during the >modification to the chips/maps?

I am not the expert and maybe John can correct me, but from my limited experience you drive your 928 as you normally would and use as much variety as possible. The longer and more varied you drive the more accurately it can "Autotune". From what I understand you could take a day long trip and let it Autotune all day if you like.

One example using the Autotune for idle only ( you can select, Idle, Cruise or WOT or any combination) it takes about 30 seconds to a minute or so to remap to a perfect idle mixture depending on how far out you are. The system has a cursor that moves around on the screen cells of the map chart (of RPMs vs MAP output I think) and you can watch the cells go from red to yellow and then green as it changes the values. When they are all changed to green you are done. VERY COOL.

>ie: start car cold and idle...
>....start car warm and idle....

The instructions say start tests with car at normal temps.

>....make 3 runs from xrpm to y rpm...etc etc

See above, the longer you test drive and the more variety the better it will Autotune, of course you can manually tune, but the Autotune feature is PRICELESS!!

 

I suspect if you are tuning for max power you'll need a dyno or some form of measuring your performance so you can determine your optimal AF mixture.... just tuning to a preset AF would be super easy on the road of course...

 

"Copyright protection does not extend to resale" - Bill Ball -

That's only the case for the original work and NOT for copies, reproductions,
or mods of the original work as is the case for performance chips.

Ask Microsoft about using their source code to modify the startup
routines to allow a quicker starting Windows and call the performance resale
mod the "QuickStart OS".

Tell Bill & the guys we're doing a tweaking to your OS to give the
consumer better perfomance. Besides, we're sure they paid for the
OS originally.

 

Hi Tony,
If you change injector size, then you reset that parameter in the Sharktuner. Then you can use autotune.

But if you have just converted to s/c then you need to be more careful, because although setting the system for larger injectors will get you pretty close at idle, the mapping at higher loads will be quite differnt to n/a. The recommendation in the user manual is to set the fuel rpm cutoff limit at about 4000rpm or 4500rpm to start with, and set the fuel restore to a low limit like 2000rpm.

Then make a wot data log in second gear, and check the A/F ratio at the top end of the scale. Correct as required, manually editing the cells initially. This minimises the risk of engine damage due to an overweak mixture.

Then increase the rpm limit in steps up to the required redline, optimising the mapping as you go.

Autotune is great for the final optimisation, or when the car is only mildly modified. I helped a friend remap his car after fitting an X pipe to his 928. It took about 1/2hour, and was done on the local roads.

We checked the cruise fuelling and corrected it, then we did a series of WOT runs through 2nd, 3rd and 4 th gears. We then checked the fuelling and adjusted as required.

The data logging tells you which cells on the fuel map require adjustment.

The Autotune feature makes it possible to tune on the road. That's how Niklas did his s/c car. This was developed with the aid of the SharkTuner. He worked up from 19#, through 30# to the 42# he is running now. Mostly used autotune, and working up the fuel cotoff rpm as he went. He car is running around 6psi intercooled and was checked on a dyno at 495BHP crank.

It is likely that more comprehensive info from the User Manual will appear of DAve's website in the near future, which should answer many of your questions...

Regards

 

well done john in staying clear of the b*** sh** regarding code violations.... it really makes you wonder!!

good to know that suburban cambridgeshire constitutes a rolling road for shark tuning

 

Hello Nick,
Sorry I forgot to reply to your earlier question....

I would think that fuel and ignition optimisation are independant variables for a particualr setup. But I am not an expert in this.

At present I don't have an agent in the UK. I am willing to remap your car for you, on our nice clear roads :-) The you can check it on a dyno.

There isn't an issue with code copyright, because we have only analysed the code. It is the customer who modifies it :-)

Have you taken delivery of your S2/GTS hybrid yet ?

Regards

 

You're right, you don't give up your copyrights. They are just indefensible in court if you haven't protected them previously. That is why SCO sues people/companies all the time. It happens more commonly with trademarks ie: Kleenex.

Enough legal BS. Let john discuss his cool new tool that should be adapted to S2s ASAP!

 

The analogy does not hold as I own the LH unit outright, as if I bought a book. I can scribble all over that book, deface it, tear the pages out, and the author or publisher have no say. I don't have a license agreement with Porsche, as I do with Microsoft. I can mess all I want with the LH or have it messsed with.

Copyright does not allow a monopoly. The authors do not retain universal rights. Copyright laws have changed so that it does not completely stifle innovation, as it would under your interpretation that no one can even touch the code. Fair use allows disassembly of copyrighted code, and this has survived many court challenges in the computer industry and game console area. It all depends on what you do with it. If you put out brand X that competes with the copyright and uses the copyrighted code, that's one thing. John isn't doing that. John's software may use hooks into the code to change variables, the same as writing in a book. There's nothing wrong with that. In the computer industry it's perfectly OK to develop products that work with another product without the copyright holder's permission, even if that involves unauthorized disassembly. Otherwise the copyright would stifle innovation.

Anyway, practically speaking, Porsche couldn't care less as long as it doesn't have a Porsche logo or purport to be a Porsche product.

 

How about a Copyright law thread?

Very cool John. This is a must have for us SC guys.

 

Lorenfb,
Nothing pisses me off more than someone hijacking a GREAT thread. We're all VERY impressed with your wisdom and knowledge, now **** off.

 

Good idea - I've got some opinions but I don't see this as being the appropriate thread. Hey Randy - can you move half a thread to OT?