blau928

M21,

No condescendence here..

John,

Next time you are in europe, let me know.. I'll let you know when I'm there as well. If our paths cross, I'd be only happy to take you for a 160 mph loop. If you go 135 in a Vectra, you are asking for it to flip over.. I always go between hamburg - berlin on the A24, and it is not as congested as one would think... Run for many mins at over 160 in several cars. most recently a CLS 500 pegged at 265km/h on the speedo for many many kilometers.

I am still working on finishing my car. I have no doubt about the Laminova cores. However, the project is on stall at the moment, as I am busy with other pressing things related to business.

Ketchmi

Hey Marc,

That car will probably never see an ORR for the rest of it's life, it's being built as a show car/toy. If it sees 3000 miles a year after we are done I will be very suprised.

My car is being rebuilt as we speak. Not sure exactly what I'm going to do about ORR, it's a passion but there is a killer track opening up here soon and we are going to be real busy supporting it. I have plans for a 2400# 79' 5-speed with about 320rwhp to go and mess with the 911 guys.

That will be fun to go mess with the new cars too, a 27 year old fat and lazy Porsche so light it will hardly wear the tires...

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/

Adam C

928SS - you're right. These cars are old. I happen to like them and own one, but since they don't make new 928s, I'm forced to go shop new and that is what is available.

No real buyer will be considering a 928 in the same sentence as a 645 or a CL500 or an E55. These are the new hot deals and the 928 is a tired car, plain and simple.

Example - my coworker has an '03 E55 AMG. It will absolutley blow the doors off any stock 928. My supercharged 928 (supermodel, 400+RWHP) will just barely beat him. Just barely. His tranny shifts so fast and with traction control, if I don't hook up (with my 315/35s ferchrissakes!) I'm toast. And he has nav, real air conditioning, and a new car.

I'm not complaining, mind you. I like the gadgets. That's why my other ride is a BMW 745Li that has more gadgetry than the space shuttle. I drive the 928 because it's cool, retro, fast and I'm fond of it after owning 3 others. But if I had to have new it wouldn't even be in the running.

As it stands, there will come a day when the old girl (1987) will just get too long in the tooth for me. I'll probably get a 911 turbo then.

tv

It just seems to me that so much of this thread has been about straight line stuff, but the purpose of the 928 and what i prefer is twisty back roads stuff. I still say that my 928 will give just about the best experience possible there and will definately beat either car i was in yesterday. I speak from experience.

Apples to apples adam, you also prove that a SC'd 928 beats a SC'd modern merc.

Kaz

I spent less money per year on my old 928S4 than on my new Audi S4. Sure the car was new with warranty but I'm paying new car prices now aren't I? So where exactly is the savings? I'd rather pay for upkeep and maintenance than a new car price just because I can drive into the dealership bay for a free cup of coffee.

That's some bad reasoning that the car manufacturers would happily keep you plugged into The Matrix for.

928SS

I'll probably keep mine just for the nostalga thing alone, and my updates should help keep it "drivable"... but to compare them to new stuff just isn't fair (to the new stuff, ha!)... what's really amazing to me is how much the sedan has evolved - like the 745Li, 5 series, the benzo, s jags, the new 4dr porsche... 4 doors, and 0-60 in a flash, corner like on rails, smooth, quiet, all the goodies - simply too cool, IMO... but my old (and not THAT tired) 928 will always have a reserved spot in my garage - and at my wrench's shop too

for a new sports car, I kinda like the new breed of ragtops - vanquish, supercharged jag, x6/8, of course the pcars, and even a few pasta rockets seem streetable now.... no way my old gal could even dream of keeping up w/them though, but it's ok - she doesn't have to know that....

buy a new car for the coffee?? nah, the coffee is $70k, and the car is free... I managed to spend more on my 928 every year for 5 yrs in maint, than I did on my plane, boat and motorhome combined.... no free coffee either... my new cars were pretty much maint $$ free... guess it depends on where you get your coffee???

Lance J

everyone is here becasue they love there sharks. not cause its the fastest. geezzz you guys r making me want to go out and get a supra turbo. then you dont have to worry about it. and if i miss my shark afer i get the supra then i'll just record the exhaust & engine sound of my shark. and covert my interior to look just like a 928. lol nah on second thought i'll just get a Yamaha r1 and keep the shark

GoRideSno

That's impressive Adam. Motortrend has the '03 E55 AMG at 4.2 sec 0-60 and 12.39 1/4th mi. Your results are about what I would expect for a 5 speed intercooled Supermodel given that with around 400rwhp I've turned 4.3 0-60 and 12.4 1/4th in my '87 automatic. Should put you at around 4.0 0-60.

Andy K

m21sniper

I was thinking the same thing....

m21sniper

New cars are the ultimate suckers bet.

Buy one, drive it off the lot, and you just lost thousands of dollars in value.

I would never buy any car that was newer than 4 years old. Most of the major depreciation has already taken place by then so i can get it pretty cheap, and i won't take a bath when i sell.

928SS

depends what tax bracket you are in sniper... my accountant called my wife one day and told her, "make him get rid of that porsche, it's already fully depreciated - he needs to get a new car"... she replied, "tell him yourself"... he never did, cause he knew I'd face another audit rather than dump my old gal... (the car, not the wife )... I did humor hm and get a new car though.. course, that pissed both of them off... ha! (what? a tricked out 4x4 can be a delivery vehicle too)

cars are rarely a good investment... once you get past that, they can all be good fun....

m21sniper

You have to consider that i look at the car business from the insiders perspective. Everything i deal in is wholesale, which is a much different market than retail.

I'm in a much lower tax bracket than i should be. I have an excellent accountant, and the repossession business is almost entirely cash.

worf928

This like all things is a matter of perspective. From my perspective cars are an expense. I don't get to deduct nothin' (at the moment at least.)

The new car versus old car debate is in general (and IMO) from a money perspective not a debate. If you buy a new car you pay depreciation and potentially higher insurance rates but for 4 to 8 years you don't pay too much in the way of maintenance. If you buy a used car you don't pay as much in depreciation but you pay more for maintenance. It all pretty much balances out if you look at the whole lifecycle and if you are only trying to optimize dollars leaving your pockets. It gets more complicated if you start factoring in your time and stress opportunity cost for dealing with the time it takes to deal with maintenance when things break.

When my non-car-folk friends bring up the new car versus old car debate I always tell them: Cars are an expense. Figure out how much you can or want to spend. Figure out if you can deal with bringing the car to a mechanic when it breaks and then buy the car that optimizes your happiness.

Kevin Michael

John,
I believe there is something wrong with your s4. Weak mid-range? This is where this car screams! I have a 87 s4 5- spd. and I can tell you after 60, still in 2nd to 75 and into 3rd till 110 when I lift off- VERY few n/a cars can match it. Iwould check your flappy, among other things. Our 930 we just sold could not beat the s4, and it was TUNED. I would have liked to have raced the goldmember as my s4 is in a factory state of tune with chip and exhaust mods only. I have g-teched 5.2 sec. 0-60 and thats before the fun starts as the power does'nt fall off after 100+. Not trying to start an arguement, just concerned about your cars state of tune. Check flappy and do a complete a-z tuneup everything new as i did (sensors wires. coils, vac hoses, everything) this will awaken the beast.

Jim Nowak

Here is a dyno of a stock E55. The CLS motor is rated at 490 hp. Do you think Mercedes is telling the truth about the hp rating of 469 from a stock E55? If that's the case, they are only losing a little over 8% through the tranny??? Notice the torque curve...er, torque table: