Flint

Yeah, but in comparison to our actual dialogue, they look like 3 year olds who just learned how to swear.

back OT: John, you said Euro 4.7 w/CIS would be a hard workaround, (if I understand correctly), what about Euro 4.7 LH-jet?

BC

Subject: Breaking Transmssions.

Don Hanson has Broken Fourth and I *Think* one of the various input shafts?

What about Cryo-freezing some easily broken pieces for just that much more strength? Its not like anyone is going to reinvent these transmissions.

Past that, I would be looking at vette trans, as that seems our only option. I assume in that model, there are many aftermarket options that would improve strength.

928ntslow

This would be awesome! (....*yawn...."that was a nice dream")

I really hate to say this (and I really HATE to say this), for all this trouble, cost, tranny swaps and such, it would be wayyyyyyyyyyyy more cost effective, easier AND give you loads of HP in wayyyyy less time, to just yank the 928 engine and throw in a serious American engine that is normally aspirated pumping 600+ hp. (as the bucket O chicken, Pop corn and Beer fly through my monitor) Keep the hood closed...who will know?

TT, SC, NOS is already bastardizing the 928 engine, why not just face facts and stick an already proven engine with tranny into the 928. It would prove to be a lot easier.

OOOooo Oooooo,how about this??? just get another car that already has the performance that you want and keep the 928 for groceries!

(I will probably get banned from the Rennlist for this one!)

bcdavis

I think the problem is that most cars we could buy, with those kind of numbers, are not as pretty as the 928, and they don't handle as well, not as comfortable, etc... We LOVE the 928, we just want it to be faster!

blau928

Hey Keith,

No banishment from the kingdom... It's a civilized kingdom... Now how about paying the penalty for such statements by writing me a check so I can purchase my new Pagani Zonda... After all, I could have asked for Mc Laren F1 money, but I'm being fair.... It's not like you said sell the 928, buy a hyundai, and drive in the right lane all the time...

Cheers,

928ntslow

Yea, I know...if I didn't love these cars, I wouldn't own 2 of them. But you have to admit, there comes a time when you have to pull your head out of the engine bay and say, hmmmm, there must be an easier way to do this. It's hard enough dealing with the prices to maintain the car, let alone trying to reproduce what has been done to the Chevy 350....meaning it has been modified in so many ways in such numbers, that it can be gotten rather inexpensively. Hell, you can get some off the shelf stuff for the ricers that will blow some minds at a very reasonable price.

If there was a TT kit, I would seriously think about buying one, but at what price and at what gain? I LOVE power...already thinking of what I can do to the GTS to pack a few more ponies in there. But again, how far do you go before you say, "OK, I have put over $30K into my $10K car and it still ain't fast enough".

I believe it DOES take innovation and time to eventually come up with a kit of some kind to give the 928 what it needs to be a contender with "todays" supercars. My hat is off to ALL of those in this community that have bettered the 928 ...in any fashion! As for the 928 engine I can only liken it to working so hard to try to make a prop engine better in the midst of jet age technology, Steam to Diesel , Diesel electric to electromagnetic.

blau928

I hear you loud and clear Keith... That's why I am going through the agony of developing my own SC system for my 928...

About the Chevy or Ford powerplants and mods widely available, I think that if someone modded a 928 this way, nothing wrong... Hell, I saw a Bentley Turbo R with a 800hp Chevy motor in it, and the car was wickedly fast... Just bolt in, as they use the TH400 trans.. Overfinch in the UK used Chevy 350's in their Range Rover Conversions... wickedly fast, and parts on every corner.... Gives me ideas for a Cayenne Killer... A 6.0liter SBC Range Rover with 800hp... I even thought about building a GT40 kit with a new Cobra engine with a Kenne Bell setup... Good for 700RWHP... Think about it for a sec. 2500lbs wet, and 700RWHP sick, but hey, why not...

Lola's came with Chevy 350's, so did Mc Laren's, Chapparrals, and many other cars.. One of my favourite cars is a Bizzarini 3500 GT... Lovely Italian styling with SBC power....

Got to keep the brain alive somehow... That modded Range Rover would make an interesting tow vehicle... Don't you think..?

928ntslow

Just make sure what ever you are towing has a reinforced tongue! LOL

BTW, you forgot to mention the Pantera, Sunbeam Tigers, Saleen...

Do you think a Chevy 502 could be shoe horned into the 928 engine bay? From what I understand, a few bolt on mods on those blocks are hovering at 1000hp....yea, a crate engine.

It would be nice to have an original Porsche V8 pumping out stupid HP, but we all know what costs are involved to just beef it up a little.

blau928

K,

Didn't forget, just too lazy to type.. Tongue reinforcement will of course be addressed.. Now, on that 502, sure it's possible, but if you wanted tall plenums and a few carbs, you'll need to slice the hood.. I think also of the weight...

Then again, what's wrong with a boosted 409 with EFI.. I'm sure it could gently squeeze out 1200-1500hp without too much effort.. Hell, if you are going to put in a 502, might as well boost it and get 2500 hp... I wonder if you'd have to buy stock in the tire company then... Come to think of it, one could run the big block with EFI, and bubble the hood just a touch...

Could be interesting indeed... Especially if you kept the hood sealed while at shows like say the one on the roof of the Petersen a few months back....! LOL..!

bcdavis

My argument is that when you modify these cars for more power, you are already messing with the original design. You are changing the bore, the stroke, adding american parts inside the engine, slapping all kinds of random aftermarket products, etc. By the time you build a "Porsche" 928 engine with 1000 horsepower, you will not have a 928 engine anymore anyhow. And you probably won't be running the Porsche transmission either. So if you want to keep your 928 stock, cool. But for people who are wanting extreme power, it seems a little silly to spend so much time and effort, when you could just drop in a 1000HP crate motor, and if it blows, you just drop in another one. And if you want to start with less horsepower, you can upgrade it cheaply. If you start with a 383, you can always add a cheap supercharger kit later. Cams, fuel injection, etc, etc... If you want to play the horsepower game, an American engine is the way to go. Maybe you can tune it and design it to be more like a 928 engine in it's power delivery. But in the end, for me, what makes the 928 great is it's comfort, it's looks, and it's handling. The engine is good, but if you want it to be a monster, and you want a supercar, with 500+ horsepower, I think an American engine is the way to go. You'd just have to do it right, and make sure the weight stays the same, and the power delivery is the same, and build a quality engine that will last. It can be done. Not all American engines are crap. My friend has a Dodge Viper which is well over 100,000 miles. He drives it every single day, many miles... I just think that it is sometimes a losing battle to try to build a 928 engine into a monster. At least your pocketbook loses. I think the quick bolt-on addition of a supercharger is a pretty cool way to hop it up to a good power level. But when I hear people debating these 20K strokers, and 13K twin-turbo kits, and massive amounts of fabrication and parts, it just seems like the money could be better spent on a Chevy conversion, and have a platform you can take from 300-1000 horsepower.

Flint

In the UK theres a car called the Bristol Fighter--no magazine has ever gotten to drive one--that uses the Viper engine...and actually makes more horsepower in it.

But as far as fantasies about engine conversions go, why stick with Chevy (except cost). How about BMW or Merc V12s, or Audi W12s, or even, heheh, the VW Diesel V10?

bcdavis

Other than cost, no reason at all...

928ntslow

I think we always mention the Chevy (350 of course), because it is probably the most accessable off the shelf, 100 ways to build it, about as cheap as buying a new Briggs and Stratton for your lawn mower engine. The weight, I would guess, is about the same as a 928 when it is all said and done.

Sure, its a push rod engine, but the dang things seem to be so strong, that you would have to absolutely not know what you are doing to kill one. I am guessing, but I think you can put together a "MEATY", EFI Chevy 350 for less than $3K.

Other engines such as Mecedes, BMW are putting you back where you started...high cost across the board! Also, I think that is probably a bit more taboo swapping out German to German engines than throwing a good ' ol American engine in....a swap like that could generate some hand to hand combat.

Personally, I scoff at the Chebby swaps, but I am coming to realize that I may be missing some seriously good innovation over that aspect!

Now if you could shoe horn a 10 cylinder motor in the 928.....8^O

Ketchmi

Bc, you fail to take into account that an american engine built to these levels will not have the longevity that the builders of the stroker motors are seeing. I have never seen even a 650hp crate engine last more than 10k miles without needing "freshened up" unless it's just pussied around and not stressed. A true 550rwhp engine puts out 630ish crank hp and to do that normally aspirated and last for 100k miles? Let's see a chev do that. I am an old Ford guy and always wanted to build a stroked cleveland with all the high tech coatings, lightweight components, etc. and run 450rwhp for 60k miles. I would have considered that quite an accomplishment. I never got around to doing it, I found out what 928's were before I could and never looked back.

If you want budget horsepower, sure....drop in a chev engine and light the fuse. How well will it be running in 22 years? How well does your car run now after 22 years? Look at Devek's record for driving to, competing in and driving home from races. Almost all of their competitors arrive in trailers and are hauled off the course by the same trailers. This past season a viper GTS-R lost half of his engine a mile before the finish line of the first leg only running the 150mph class. I know of one gentleman with a supercharged Z06, dyno'd at 585rwhp, never finished a race in that configuration. Lost 2 new engines in 3 races. I have passed a lot of vette's, viper's and other machines along the side of the road in ORR but I have never seen a 928 sidelined yet. I drive mine to the races too, haven't used a trailer yet.

If you want to drop in some chevy power and beat me in a drag race, all the best to you. Do it again in 10 years after some hard use on the same engine? I know, I know, you can build 2 engines for the same price but it's still not worth it to me. Check out the price of professionaly built SBC's at that kind of horsepower levels, you are pushing $10k pretty easily............

Let's see, grab my handy Summit cat.......Huntsville SBC, 355ci 480 crank hp 12.9/1 compression with iron heads is $9k! Step up to 575 crank hp, 406ci with the same compression and aluminum heads, the price is $11,300. That engine would net you approx. 488rwhp with a really streetable 12.9/1 compression.(Bwaaahaahaaa!) I'm sure it'll pass emissions too! I could go on and on but it's not worth my time. You will find ways to justify it to yourself all day as I can the other way. Do what you please as long as it makes you happy just don't try to convince me/us it's better.

Enjoy whatever you choose to do........

Dave
Motorsport

blau928

Bristol is preimerely now an aerospace company, and continues to build cars for distinguished clients.. The Blenheim has been unchanged for decades... It used the torqueflite trans and I believe a chrysler 360 v8...

Dave L,

True, but I think the point others were eluding to was that parts are more readily available for Chevys than Porsches.... Yes, a professionaly assembled bowtie motor will cost you, but if you get stranded in BFE, chances are you will be able to get a part for it... If we were in germany, the same could be said for VW, Audi, and MBZ... However, we live here... (at least for now)

Cheers,