Problem using 32V'er
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Problem using 32V'er
Was able to get back to timing belt job today after a long gap. Car is off the road for winter so in no rush.
Where I'd left it was with the new belt on, and the main wiring loom reconnected to 14-pin socket.
What I hadn't noticed until the new belt was on was that the RHS 1-4 cam had slipped a tooth at one stage. Only discovered this after removing the crank lock and rotating to 0T where the engine is now. Though this would not be a problem as I had the 32V'er tool from the last change when I'd replaced the cam sprockets. Checking the RHS cam timing with the tool it was just beyond the last 9 degree retarded hole.
I installed the spacer, released the clamp ring bolts and prepared to rotate the cam clockwise to bring it back to 0 degrees. It rotated to 6 deg retarded and then stopped. I didn't want to force anything so wanted to ask advice here.
Why is it not possible to advance the cam any further? The initial timing was a little past the last 9 deg retarded hole so is there now valve contact at the 0T crank position which is why I can't rotate further? Is there a way to get from here to the desired 0 deg cam timing without undoing work and removing the new belt?
Thanks for any help!
Where I'd left it was with the new belt on, and the main wiring loom reconnected to 14-pin socket.
What I hadn't noticed until the new belt was on was that the RHS 1-4 cam had slipped a tooth at one stage. Only discovered this after removing the crank lock and rotating to 0T where the engine is now. Though this would not be a problem as I had the 32V'er tool from the last change when I'd replaced the cam sprockets. Checking the RHS cam timing with the tool it was just beyond the last 9 degree retarded hole.
I installed the spacer, released the clamp ring bolts and prepared to rotate the cam clockwise to bring it back to 0 degrees. It rotated to 6 deg retarded and then stopped. I didn't want to force anything so wanted to ask advice here.
Why is it not possible to advance the cam any further? The initial timing was a little past the last 9 deg retarded hole so is there now valve contact at the 0T crank position which is why I can't rotate further? Is there a way to get from here to the desired 0 deg cam timing without undoing work and removing the new belt?
Thanks for any help!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Doh Ive just realised that one of the clamp bolts (they would normally clamp the distributor rotor) must have reached end of its slot when I rotated the cam.
Does this mean I need to go back a few steps, rotate to 45BTDC, lock crank and restring the belt making sure the cam doesnt slip back? I think theres a reference in the 32Ver instructions to restring the belt if any of the clamp bolt holes are at the end of their slots.
Does this mean I need to go back a few steps, rotate to 45BTDC, lock crank and restring the belt making sure the cam doesnt slip back? I think theres a reference in the 32Ver instructions to restring the belt if any of the clamp bolt holes are at the end of their slots.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Thanks Kevin Ill search for that.
Also checked the 32 Ver instructions which say the range is around +/- 7 degrees with holes centred.
Also checked the 32 Ver instructions which say the range is around +/- 7 degrees with holes centred.
Last edited by StratfordShark; Dec 16, 2024 at 05:02 PM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2002
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From: Roswell, GA
That leads to picking one.
Still waiting on Merlin.
Kevin
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Yes I recall one bolt was obviously off centre when I last used the tool, but I only needed to adjust timing a few degrees that time so didnt get close to maxing out the slot.
Think Ill have to reverse some steps and remove the belt, and this time make sure the 1-4 sprocket hasnt slipped when I reinstall belt.
Think Ill have to reverse some steps and remove the belt, and this time make sure the 1-4 sprocket hasnt slipped when I reinstall belt.
Last edited by StratfordShark; Dec 16, 2024 at 05:45 PM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 206
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From: Port Ludlow WA
Believe I had the same problem and Stan had given me this advice which fixed mine. Post #3
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...86-timing.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...86-timing.html
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Thanks Drdekar and thanks Stan when he sees this.
So you kept the crank at 0T and slid belt off the RHS pulley and moved it a tooth before replacing belt, or did you move crank to 45 before jumping the belt? Did you slacken off tensioner all the way to achieve this?
Would be great not to have to retrace my steps too far. Was thinking Id done all the tricky stuff on this project!
So you kept the crank at 0T and slid belt off the RHS pulley and moved it a tooth before replacing belt, or did you move crank to 45 before jumping the belt? Did you slacken off tensioner all the way to achieve this?
Would be great not to have to retrace my steps too far. Was thinking Id done all the tricky stuff on this project!
Last edited by StratfordShark; Dec 16, 2024 at 07:09 PM.
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
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Likes: 4,172
From: Philly PA
Well I just found a cool trick to move the belt a tooth without taking off the belt
for the 928 you doo need to unscrew the tensioner bolt about 4 turns then place a Phillips bit under the cam belt and turn the belt so the bit comes out the other side this will move the belt one tooth. I suggest to watch a YouTube video on belt adjustments using a bit
If you have any doubts about this put the engine back to 45 btdc then remove the belt
for the 928 you doo need to unscrew the tensioner bolt about 4 turns then place a Phillips bit under the cam belt and turn the belt so the bit comes out the other side this will move the belt one tooth. I suggest to watch a YouTube video on belt adjustments using a bit
If you have any doubts about this put the engine back to 45 btdc then remove the belt
Last edited by Mrmerlin; Dec 16, 2024 at 08:07 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Thats a miraculous trick!
Id like to try it, but would mean going counter clockwise for around half a cam revolution. Is that OK?
Edit: All set now have removed the 32Ver tool/spacer and torqued cam bolt. Tensioner now backed out about 4 turns and belt very loose in area of tensioner. Crank still at 0T and looking at the notch on 1-4 pulley and backplate I am about a tooth retarded which I believe is 15 degrees. The marks are actually 1.5 teeth apart but they were half a tooth apart after installing new sprockets a few years ago and using tool to set to 0:0 timing (I couldnt precisely copy position of original sprocket).
Id like to try it, but would mean going counter clockwise for around half a cam revolution. Is that OK?
Edit: All set now have removed the 32Ver tool/spacer and torqued cam bolt. Tensioner now backed out about 4 turns and belt very loose in area of tensioner. Crank still at 0T and looking at the notch on 1-4 pulley and backplate I am about a tooth retarded which I believe is 15 degrees. The marks are actually 1.5 teeth apart but they were half a tooth apart after installing new sprockets a few years ago and using tool to set to 0:0 timing (I couldnt precisely copy position of original sprocket).
Last edited by StratfordShark; Dec 17, 2024 at 11:31 AM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 206
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From: Port Ludlow WA
Post #9 is what I did to fix this problem. So it was like starting from the beginning on an install of the belt. When I was putting on the PS I had the DS held in place and while I looping on the PS I moved it back one tooth Then tightened the the belt tensioner to spec. spun it a few times to make sure it was good. Installed PK tool to fine adjust it. Tool then lined up with all three holes. Checked 2 months ago still good.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,379
Likes: 128
From: Stratford-upon-Avon
Yes I saw you recovered the right timing very easily.
If I did the same thing I dont think Id have to dismantle too much - just maybe pull the big engine loom out a bit to make room to remove the belt from the 1-4 cam, and just zip-tie the other cam as the timings fine on that, as yours was.
But Im tempted to try that trick with the Philips bit, first just because its such an elegant idea and MrMerlin hasnt dismissed it. If it all went wrong and the belt slipped more than a tooth ((Ive backed off tensioner) then I could just go back to square one with belt completely off. Cant imagine anything worse happening but cars can always bite you when youre working on them so I may be being too cavalier!
If I did the same thing I dont think Id have to dismantle too much - just maybe pull the big engine loom out a bit to make room to remove the belt from the 1-4 cam, and just zip-tie the other cam as the timings fine on that, as yours was.
But Im tempted to try that trick with the Philips bit, first just because its such an elegant idea and MrMerlin hasnt dismissed it. If it all went wrong and the belt slipped more than a tooth ((Ive backed off tensioner) then I could just go back to square one with belt completely off. Cant imagine anything worse happening but cars can always bite you when youre working on them so I may be being too cavalier!
Last edited by StratfordShark; Dec 17, 2024 at 06:41 PM.
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From: Oman
That’s a miraculous trick!
I’d like to try it, but would mean going counter clockwise for around half a cam revolution. Is that OK?
Edit: All set now have removed the 32V’er tool/spacer and torqued cam bolt. Tensioner now backed out about 4 turns and belt very loose in area of tensioner. Crank still at 0T and looking at the notch on 1-4 pulley and backplate I am about a tooth retarded which I believe is 15 degrees. The marks are actually 1.5 teeth apart but they were half a tooth apart after installing new sprockets a few years ago and using tool to set to 0:0 timing (I couldn’t precisely copy position of original sprocket).
I’d like to try it, but would mean going counter clockwise for around half a cam revolution. Is that OK?
Edit: All set now have removed the 32V’er tool/spacer and torqued cam bolt. Tensioner now backed out about 4 turns and belt very loose in area of tensioner. Crank still at 0T and looking at the notch on 1-4 pulley and backplate I am about a tooth retarded which I believe is 15 degrees. The marks are actually 1.5 teeth apart but they were half a tooth apart after installing new sprockets a few years ago and using tool to set to 0:0 timing (I couldn’t precisely copy position of original sprocket).
Tighten the belt back up and move the engine forwards to get to the point where you want to try whatever- preferably at 45 degrees before TDC. That way you can do no harm despite your best efforts.
The cam sprocket has 48 teeth so one tooth represents 7.5 cam degrees or 15 crank degrees.
Given you have Ken's excellent 32VR kit available to you how did you manage to the get the timing out by one tooth?
