Oil Pan gasket - things your mama never told you!
06-13-2004, 07:36 PM
#1
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Oil Pan gasket - things your mama never told you!
Successfully Installed the dreaded oil pan gasket in a '80 16v today: I wasted more energy thinking about it than actually doing the job, but came up with a slightly modified method that worked better than expected!
Firstly, thanks to Erkka - for I took his lead in the 'cut and paste' approach.
Secondly, I used the thin hand cut cork/neoprene composite gasket from UltramaticDynamics.com. - not the OEM cork (perhaps the Big 3 now have this type, for I've had this sitting around for over a year)
I did not want to drop the rack, etc., etc., by the traditional method - so I loosened the 4 17mm mount bolts by ~20mm. In addition, the starter came off, and all other accessories were removed or swung aside ( for a TB job awaiting parts). Then, by jacking the pan, the 4 short bastard bolts under the cross member were removed with a 10mm spanner (the center rear of the pan also has a short bolt). By lowering the pan/engine, all remaining 6mm bolts were removed. BTW, when you pull down the front end of the pan, be prepared to catch the oil trapped in the rear.
With the pan dropped, the entire 24 year old gasket came with it. A lot of careful prying, and the gasket came out in two pieces. By blocking and jacking slightly under the lower bell housing, an important extra inch of clearance was gained as the engine was lifted. At this point, I "double L" cut the surface of the gasket at front center. Then, with an 18" piece of (brake line) tubing with a small hook attached, a gasket end was looped around the pick-up tube and progressively fed to the back. This gasket type is very thin and flexible, so it took a bit of manipulation - but in it went!! The cut ends were joined with a very fine bead of gel 'Krazy Glue'. And the rest is history ....
It turned out to be quite easy to do. Simply loosening the mount bolts is key. Doing the cut and paste entirely from the front was also key. With some dexterity, the bolts under the cross member caught, and made it back in.
I rambled on about method, for it is a job every car will require, and is often put off; however, this approach was not bad - and I think it will last the life of the car. Maybe this can work for you. Some pics were taken - I'll start with the best one - with everything buttoned up!
Firstly, thanks to Erkka - for I took his lead in the 'cut and paste' approach.
Secondly, I used the thin hand cut cork/neoprene composite gasket from UltramaticDynamics.com. - not the OEM cork (perhaps the Big 3 now have this type, for I've had this sitting around for over a year)
I did not want to drop the rack, etc., etc., by the traditional method - so I loosened the 4 17mm mount bolts by ~20mm. In addition, the starter came off, and all other accessories were removed or swung aside ( for a TB job awaiting parts). Then, by jacking the pan, the 4 short bastard bolts under the cross member were removed with a 10mm spanner (the center rear of the pan also has a short bolt). By lowering the pan/engine, all remaining 6mm bolts were removed. BTW, when you pull down the front end of the pan, be prepared to catch the oil trapped in the rear.
With the pan dropped, the entire 24 year old gasket came with it. A lot of careful prying, and the gasket came out in two pieces. By blocking and jacking slightly under the lower bell housing, an important extra inch of clearance was gained as the engine was lifted. At this point, I "double L" cut the surface of the gasket at front center. Then, with an 18" piece of (brake line) tubing with a small hook attached, a gasket end was looped around the pick-up tube and progressively fed to the back. This gasket type is very thin and flexible, so it took a bit of manipulation - but in it went!! The cut ends were joined with a very fine bead of gel 'Krazy Glue'. And the rest is history ....
It turned out to be quite easy to do. Simply loosening the mount bolts is key. Doing the cut and paste entirely from the front was also key. With some dexterity, the bolts under the cross member caught, and made it back in.
I rambled on about method, for it is a job every car will require, and is often put off; however, this approach was not bad - and I think it will last the life of the car. Maybe this can work for you. Some pics were taken - I'll start with the best one - with everything buttoned up!
06-13-2004, 11:15 PM
#4
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Bill,
~4 hours, and that was with the alternator already removed, and the PS and A/C out of the way. The starter 8mm Allen bolts were tough, and needed an impact wrench on one - a 'cheater' on the other. One pan bolt was so tight that it would have snapped: in these cases, an impact tool is needed. So, it's the little things that eat time: had everything come apart easily, I'm sure 2 hours could do it.
~4 hours, and that was with the alternator already removed, and the PS and A/C out of the way. The starter 8mm Allen bolts were tough, and needed an impact wrench on one - a 'cheater' on the other. One pan bolt was so tight that it would have snapped: in these cases, an impact tool is needed. So, it's the little things that eat time: had everything come apart easily, I'm sure 2 hours could do it.
06-14-2004, 12:38 AM
#5
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Garth: This is one of the procedures that should go into the websites of the 928 OC or Greg Nichols, so future generations of 928 owners can benfit from it. Please do submit the writeup and pictures!
06-14-2004, 11:32 AM
#6
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Gasket looks very thin in pictures. Will be interesting to see how joint holds up. We used OEM cork type and did slicing sideways through it. Requires really steady hands and sharp knife but it can be done. Probably type you used would be too thin for our way. Your way looks easier. Ours do have one advantage, larger bonding area for the glue.
Regards,
Erkka
1992 928 GTS 5-speed needs to be glued back together
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX
Regards,
Erkka
1992 928 GTS 5-speed needs to be glued back together
Oak Green Metallic 22L
Classic Gray MX
06-14-2004, 11:54 AM
#7
Drifting
There's a new flexible super glue available now. The regular crazy glue is very brittle on compressible materials.
You proved it could be done; just not sure you saved much time. Dropping the crossmember with the engine supported from below is really not that difficult.
You proved it could be done; just not sure you saved much time. Dropping the crossmember with the engine supported from below is really not that difficult.
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06-14-2004, 08:31 PM
#8
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Borland,
I'm sure you are correct on the time issue: What I had wanted to avoid was either one or both of,
- raising the engine too high and straining hose connections
- having to contend with the steering shaft universal joint reconnection if the rack/crossmember were dropped.
I'm sure the cut could have been avoided by feeding the gasket under the pickup tube with the 'current' design - and a flexible gasket: The screen type pickup in the early 16v models makes this all but impossible.
In any event, I've no concerns about the cut/rejoin integrity and stability: O-rings are routinely made up in that fashion for pressure service - Just use a bare minimum of adhesive.
Another plus for dropping the rack etc. comes when motor mount replacement ( or rod bearings) is to be done.
I'm sure you are correct on the time issue: What I had wanted to avoid was either one or both of,
- raising the engine too high and straining hose connections
- having to contend with the steering shaft universal joint reconnection if the rack/crossmember were dropped.
I'm sure the cut could have been avoided by feeding the gasket under the pickup tube with the 'current' design - and a flexible gasket: The screen type pickup in the early 16v models makes this all but impossible.
In any event, I've no concerns about the cut/rejoin integrity and stability: O-rings are routinely made up in that fashion for pressure service - Just use a bare minimum of adhesive.
Another plus for dropping the rack etc. comes when motor mount replacement ( or rod bearings) is to be done.
06-14-2004, 09:33 PM
#9
Fleet of Foot
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I would seriously consider losing that draincock or whatever that is on your pan. I have heard horror stories of what happens to engines when those things get knocked off by road debris. Why take the chance on what is at best a minute's worth of convenience?
06-14-2004, 11:59 PM
#10
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Thanks for sharing Garth.... great idea! I'm interested to hear how it's holding up a month, a year from now. That should work OK, though. I may have to drop my rack to get my steering wheel lined up anyway, so I probably won't have to do this. But if I need to, I'll be sure to check back on this thread & see how yours held up. 
06-15-2004, 08:39 AM
#14
Under the Lift
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I wasn't real thrilled with the ultradynamics gasket. The hand cut bolt holes were not well-aligned and the gasket came with folds in it, stuffed in an envelope. So, I opted for a stock gasket. They are shipped flat on a large cardboard sheet.
Were you able to really clean up the gasket surfaces with the pan in-place? I spent an hour cleaning the pan in a parts washer before it looked clean enough to reinstall.
I am an enthusiastic supporter of shortcuts if the result is adequate and I do hope yours holds up.
Were you able to really clean up the gasket surfaces with the pan in-place? I spent an hour cleaning the pan in a parts washer before it looked clean enough to reinstall.
I am an enthusiastic supporter of shortcuts if the result is adequate and I do hope yours holds up.
06-15-2004, 09:54 AM
#15
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Gerry, Very nice!! Probably took a bit more than 4 hrs. 
. Especially like the headers - what is your judgment of gain? Did you have to place extra heat shields in? -, eg. that clutch slave hose looks close.
Bill S - that drain arrangement was machined out of bar stock, not for the convienence of draining, but to correct the mechanics fubar when the car was purchased in '85. My 'new' car was dripping after a fresh oil change. Found the seal ring squirted out the side like a dead worm: turns out the young wrench assigned to the oil bay stripped the drain (3' stiltson?), and the shop installed a helicoil - and cut the end (not) flush with a die grinder. It takes a very thick teflon gasket to seal, and is best left undisturbed ... R.I.P.
Bill B,
Yes, my gasket arrived stuffed in an envelope too. Fortunately, it is made of pretty resiliant material: It was placed between flat cardboard and left to 'mature'. It emerged perfectly flat, and no alignment problems re. bolt holes.
The sealing surfaces were almost sparkling clean as the old gasket came away: they passed the touch test for any imperfections, so were given a lint free wipe before accepting the gasket. ( All outer edges were well cleaned prior to bolt removal). my torque wrench was 2 fingers on a 4" MAC 10mm wrench, so unless it was too crushed, the seal will hold: ( the old cork had two straight through cracks, and did not show undue leakage)
. Especially like the headers - what is your judgment of gain? Did you have to place extra heat shields in? -, eg. that clutch slave hose looks close.Bill S - that drain arrangement was machined out of bar stock, not for the convienence of draining, but to correct the mechanics fubar when the car was purchased in '85. My 'new' car was dripping after a fresh oil change. Found the seal ring squirted out the side like a dead worm: turns out the young wrench assigned to the oil bay stripped the drain (3' stiltson?), and the shop installed a helicoil - and cut the end (not) flush with a die grinder. It takes a very thick teflon gasket to seal, and is best left undisturbed ... R.I.P.
Bill B,
Yes, my gasket arrived stuffed in an envelope too. Fortunately, it is made of pretty resiliant material: It was placed between flat cardboard and left to 'mature'. It emerged perfectly flat, and no alignment problems re. bolt holes.
The sealing surfaces were almost sparkling clean as the old gasket came away: they passed the touch test for any imperfections, so were given a lint free wipe before accepting the gasket. ( All outer edges were well cleaned prior to bolt removal). my torque wrench was 2 fingers on a 4" MAC 10mm wrench, so unless it was too crushed, the seal will hold: ( the old cork had two straight through cracks, and did not show undue leakage)