heinrich

Anders, I'm not going to try to defend what you see on video. It is what it is. You will notice that we did not start the run at 0mph.

Gretch

I watched the film and listened to the audio clip at the same time. The bike does back off after the 120 mph mark.......nice clip.

sweanders

I'm not very negative about the run, it seems genuine. It only proves that the aerodynamics play a bigger roll than power/weight ratio once up at speed.

SharkSkin

Mark, I assume you're talking about Highway 9. That's definitely a road where cars can beat bikes. Many years ago, in a Datsun 510 station wagon with many engine, trans and suspension mods and two passengers, I tailgated a Suzuki 850(GSX-R?) going down that road. Stayed with him all the way to the "5-minute" bridge, where he got around a truck and got away. But the whole time, we could see him pegging the throttle... and shaking his head.

Now, the 510 didn't have enough power to pull this stunt going uphill.... but I have no doubt that the S4 DOES.

mark kibort

yes, 0-60 is a big advantage of the bikes, but youre right, on a track, the equalizer, is that most of the drags are 40/60mph to 130mph and there is as much braking and cornering , where most race cars have an advantage (although it doesnt look like it when you watch those races, does it!?)

mk

bcdavis

Bikes stop pretty damn good though.
They do not have as much mass to slow down.
You've seen stoppies, right?
It's like a wheelie, but in reverse.
Where you hit the brakes on a bike really hard, and the bike will
end up standing up on the front wheel, with the back one high in the air.

I guess the thing with bikes, is that even if they have better acceleration,
better braking, and better weight, they still have to deal with the issues
of traction. As well as the issues of weight. The concerns are just
different. In a car, if you hit the brakes, it does not stop so hard,
and so fast, that your car pops up onto the front two wheels,
with the rear hanging in the air! And if you accelerate in most
cars, you do not have so much power, that your car does
a huge wheelie. The reason bikes might not be as fast out of
a corner as a race car, is not for lack of power. The problem
is that if you give it too much power in a corner, the front
wheel comes up, and you can no longer steer, and so you
crash. So it is a whole different game. So yes, I think the
reason people who ride bikes think they are fast, is because
they do have that kind of intense power, and intense braking capacity.

But they also have other issues, with small contact patches,
and getting that power to the road. That is why people who
are debating the issue of car vs bike, are saying it has a lot
more about the rider's ability to get the power to the road
carefully. In this case, if you downshifted a couple of
gears, he would have a lot more power, and would be
wheelieing along that ramp. But most riders do not feel
safe hitting the gas in a lower gear, because the fear
flipping the bike backwards. So they start out in a
higher gear, and the acceleration suffers...

Jim bailey - 928 International

B C makes an excellent point , the 929 RR makes 110-125 hp from 9,000 rpm to 12,000 rpm . Torque is about 65 ft lbs from 6,000 to 11,500 . I believe that the rider was at wide open throttle BUT BIG BUT was way down on the RPM and making much less horsepower than if he had been in the "correct " gear . The bike weighs 378 lbs plus rider so add 180 lbs for maybe 558 total with 115 hp or so ...... the 928 at 3400 plus 450 (two guys) is 3950 lbs so the loaded 928 weighs seven times as much as the bike/rider ! the 928 however only has less than three times the horsepower . Seven times the weight with only three times the horsepower should not be a race . I vote rider error ! I love your enthusiasm Heinrich and the video clip is real it may however be more an indication of rider skills than performance capability .

heinrich

Well then ... let us all pray that when we meet one of these puppies on the street, the rider is not in the best gear :-)

Jim bailey - 928 International

Heinrich or that the rider weighs about 900 lbs

bcdavis

That's the world of street racing for you...

Too many variables to really figure things out.
Wrong gear, missed shift, bad driver, etc...

There are 500 hp bikes that will beat a 1000hp Viper.
There are Honda Civics that will kick your a$$.
There are sleeper musclecars with 2000 horsepower.
There are people with cars that look like they go 200MPH, and they can barely top 100.

Just way too many variables in street racing to really make any solid claims.

Ispeed

Bikes are faster than cars. With very very very very few exceptions. This is getting really old.

heinrich

RC51 -- Point of order.

This all started way back, when I posted that this had been my experience, and some replied (some rather violently) that I was talking a load of bull. To me, this is a video clip that says: "OK, if Heinrich is talking bull, then so is this video clip."

Look, watch, listen, see. If you have an explanation as to WHY this video clip shows what it shows, I will not argue with you. To me, the point is not WHY. It is THAT.

bcdavis

Seriously, if you want to find out, just challenge one.
Rev your engine at some guy on a sportbike, and test it out on your own.

SharkSkin

In general, bikes accelerate and decelerate quicker than cars... but they cannot corner as fast as a well-set-up car. That's assuming that each machine has the best possible traction and each machine is operated at or near its limit. I was making the point that going downhill on a very twisty road I could stay with a very, very fast bike with a reasonably well set up 4 cylinder station wagon.

The reason you see bikes getting better times than cars on some tracks is because they more than make up for their slow cornering when they get to the straights.

mark kibort

there aint a street bike you will see on the road, with street tires, unless it is driven by a pro, that will have half a chance on a mountain road to a good road racer in a street licenced race car. Again, want proof, look at the last laguna seca super bike race. places 25 to 35 were all 1:40s and slower. and these guys are on race rubber! Your average street biker has NO track experience, and even if he did, he would be more than likely last place in a pro superbike race.

so, if we are not talking about drag racing, and we are talking about road racing, a fast car and a fast bike are pretty darn close.

(bikes have very very tiny contact patchs, and other issues that keep them from braking and handling as well as a car) sure, all out accleration, gives the bike the advantage.

Look at the records at laguna seca for champ cars vs bikes. Hp to weights are still much better with the bikes, but cars run 1:09 and the very fastest bikes run 1:20s. (est) so, its not all about hp to weight when it comes to cars vs bikes.

mk
1:40.2 at laguna seca in a gutted street car, no engine mods, street mod suspension, and a set of big wheels and tires.
you will be hard pressed to find average joe street driver that could even touch that time, on ANY bike.