slate blue

When cruising the web for info on my engine project, I found this, something which I have known for some time but was challenged by Lag on the issue of how high performance chevy and Ford engines lose their power much quicker than engines that are coated particulary with Nicasil. Alusil engines also wear better than an iron bore engine.


Here is there blurb on their coating

"Apticote Ceramic 2000, developed by Aptec Poeton, is a metal matrix coating system specifically developed for high performance automotive applications.

Apticote Ceramic 2000 is unrivalled for coating the cylinder bores of engine blocks or engine liners. The process has been especially tailored to coat a variety of different base materials viz. Aluminium, Steel, Cast Iron, MMC's hyperutectic alloys etc.

Apticote 2000 is made up of an oleofilic (oil loving) hard metal coating, loaded with very small ultrahard ceramic particles."

These are the people who make the liners for the Cosworth F1 engine otherwise known as the Jag engine, they did a study and found.

"In a monitored trial, Apticote Ceramic 2000 coated Cast Iron V8 engine blocks , gave five times the normal race life with dramatic reductions in piston and ring wear, oil consumption and blow-by. "

Some more of their explanation of why.


"Historically, the convention for final finishing has been to achieve a cross-hatched, plateau-honed structure, the objective being to hold an oil film, even at high revs. The oleofilic nature of Apticote Ceramic 2000 coating allows very much finer finishes to be obtained, whilst still achieving excellent oil retention. That finer finish reduces the wear and pressure on piston rings, the oil consumption and friction."

So there you have it, John I'm sure you will enjoy this article, BTW I have spoken to their technical Director and asked him about their piston coatings, he said that they haven't tested the coatings that might work in an Alusil bore but just really recommended the Nicasil as it has unsurpassed qualities.

John.

You know I can talk all I want about it, yet others will still disagree. Good information here. I prefer to use the most modern and advanced technology in what I put together.

Old & New

Greg,

Perhaps arriving in the middle of the argument explains why i'm confused.

No one would suggest that the advanced coatings didn't extend the life of the components, but how is a rapid loss of power in Chevy and Ford engines proven by an explanation of this particular coating?

I understand the premise, but maybe the answer lies in how you define "much quicker".

slate blue

O.K old and new, it was suggested in a post that the old detroit iron motors had the same longevity as a high tech coated one. To be more precise when the topic was brought up, ( I think it was about sleeving)
I said that why sleeve when these ceramic coatings give much greater engine life. They also don't have incompatibilty issues like the steel sleeves do. I also said things like the aluminium bore has better heat tranfer properties than steel and as such offers better cooling.

I was challenged on the engine durabilty issue, I said that the high horsepower "detroit iron" engines lose their power fairly quickly. Yes that probably wasn't quantified well enough, but it was in the context of making comparisons to Nicasil. Albeit that the piston ring to bore seal isn't the only important seal in the engine, the thing is, that normally an engine that has Nicasil or Alusil will also probably have top class valves and seats as stardard, at least as far from a durability standpoint. Hope this helps.

P.S one of the reasons that the iron motors wear faster is they have more friction, if you reread the article they dicuss why their coating has less friction, so therefore it is what the iron doesn't have.

Jim bailey - 928 International

The boys in NASCAR have been using Nicasil for several years now . They used to fly the blocks to England very expensive but now have them "plated" in the U S . No one knows more about cast iron V-8 engines than the good old boys of NASCAR one dyno operator told me they gained a few more HP as well as better wear (try driving 500 miles at 8,000 -9,000 rpm making 800 hp or so ) . Joe Fan's 6.5 is running Nicasil but only has a few hours on the engine it will get a few more today , Sat Sun. at the California speedway Porsche event .

Old & New

Thank you, Greg, it was the context of your post that threw me. I understand where you are coming from now.

Tony

uh, where do you live and what 928 videos are you having?

Jim bailey - 928 International

Rob you're planning on pin striping your 928 ??

Jim Nowak

Many people are scared of Nickasil because BMW could never seem to get it right on their cars........and how many engines do they make a year?

Lagavulin

Yes, I remember that one, and I believe at the time the statement was that 'in one year those engines lose a considerable amount of horsepower'. I'm still chuckling over that one, although I'm not sure if it was your comment or not. One year?? 25k miles? Sorry, but not one that's been properly maintained.

A personal case in point, my step-dad has a GMC truck with 370,000 miles on the original 350 ci cast iron engine which burns half a quart of oil every 3000 miles with hard use everyday. He still gets 12 mpg, the same as when he bought it with 20k miles on the clock. The engine has never been opened up. The 'only' thing he does to the engine is religeously change the oil every 3000 miles with SWEPCO 10w-40, and the various filters when their time is up.

I was not challenging one cylinder material over the other, just the usual blanket statements being made. As with any vehicle, a little basic maintenance goes a long, long way, and in this case, 370k miles worth. Likewise, ignoring the maintenance schedules, be prepared to suffer the consequences, regardless of manufacturer.

slate blue

Well Lag I wasn't referring to maintaince but wear rates in high performance engines. I would think that all race motors recieve very high levels of care.

It was an apples to apples test that Poeton put up. I would suggest that a race motor won't last 25k miles. The comparison you just put forward with a truck longevity versus what Poeton tested is not relevent, Poeton tested race motors which are under much more stressful conditions. It all comes back to the reduction of friction and and as a result of that reduction of friction a reduced amount of wear.

Tony

Personally, Im waiting for the day at the end of this years race season when Joe Fan gets his race motor torn down for its checkout, refreshing and prep for the following season.

Meanwhile my stroker crank sits patiently in the corner of the garage in its unopened box. "all dressed up and know where to go"...YET