firemn131

Just came across this today.

No Affiliation..

Anyone tried them or have any more information?

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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/u...sche/model/928

US Motor Works mechanical water pumps are designed and tested to meet or exceed OEM specifications. Using advanced research, they include efficient impellers, case-hardened bearings, and unitized seals to provide optimum cooling with performance and longevity. Every US Motor Works mechanical water pump is supplied with a quality mounting gasket and other accessories (seals/gaskets) necessary to properly complete the installation.

US Motor Works mechanical water pumps feature:

* Case hardened bearings that meet specific radial torque and axial load requirements; they have higher load capacities, are tough on the outside, yet flexible on the inside … ideal for withstanding imbalance or vibration
* All mounting surfaces are CNC-machined for easy installation, precision sealing, long component life, and maximum efficiency
* Inspected and tested to ISO: 9001:2015 standards
* Industry-leading metal impeller integration; metal impellers handle more torque and higher temperatures than plastic to improve high-rpm performance and combat failure caused by broken or distorted impellers
* Highly durable metal impellers are also chemical-resistant, withstand variables in high-mileage engines, and are better for transit and storage
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I am on hold now to see if they are US made and the bearing spec.

Best,

John

GregBBRD

The only way to know anything about what you are getting, in a water pump, is to buy one and cut it apart, and inspect the bearing, seals, etc. I've done this for every brand, except for this one and the one that was for sale from "DIY Solutions". These two pumps look amazingly the same....

US Motor Works:
2005-Joint venture with Chinese Casting Manufacturers
2007-Opened Engineering facility in China

firemn131

Hey Greg,

I could send one to you if you would check it out.

Gage

We'd all like to believe; right?
Layered with some slick marketing language and a sprinkling of buzzy engineering terms and shazam... believers!
Actually this description is hilarious!

Harvey928

I am very very curious "Industry-leading metal impeller integration; metal impellers handle more torque and higher temperatures than plastic to improve high-rpm performance and combat failure caused by broken or distorted impellers"

metal impellers, I have always been told stay away from them. You want the plastic impellers so that they do not destroy the block.

gazfish

ISO: 9001:2015 is an accreditation for a companies quality processes/procedure, no expert but I don’t think you can apply it to a specific product.
Can’t see anywhere on their site where they state they are accredited.

dr bob

Amen!

I ended up with a collection of very large (big enough to walk through...) but damaged water-seal vacuum pumps in SE Asia that were manufactured by Siemens in Germany. They had a complete records of each pump, showing where they had adhered to the design manufacturing dimensions that were wrong. They were measured, stamped, documented completely to show how they matched the design drawings. It even showed how the rotors were about 1mm thicker than the housing, so the end plates were clamping the rotor. Throughout the whole design, assembly, and QC processes nobody had bothered to see if they could actually rotate the impellors in the housings. Talk about "impellor eating the block"!

In the case of the US Motor Woks or DIY solutions or any other pump, there's no way to find the bearing and seal quality without a destructive teardown, and some hope that there's a traceable industry part number and a manufacturer someplace on the cartridge. The next big challenge is figuring out if the next one, the one you plan to install, was made with the same components as the one you just "tested". In our constant efforts to drive down costs, a few pennies saved is a good enough reason to change to another supplier, or to substitute the next lower line of bearing and seal cartridge. The mfr is only on the hook for his sale price, maybe with channel markups. The 'limited' lifetime warranty has enough holes in it to avoid costs for all but your biggest marketers and their best customers. Good or bad, I'll never look like a "big customer" to Summit.


Risk too high, difference in cost too low to make this a good gamble. I'd almost rather negotiate with a local rebuilder, where I can see the bearing and seal package before it gets placed in the housing. That takes a lot of effort and care, more than it takes to buy a new Laso and be done with it.

GregBBRD

The water pump bearing assembly. in a 928 pump has two separate rows of bearings.

In high quality pumps:
The bearing closest to the belt is a roller bearing. A high quality roller bearing has a large contact area and can absorb a tremendous amount of loading perpendicular to the bearing surface.
The second set of bearings are ball bearings, which control the endplay of the bearing shaft. Perpendicular loading to the rollers needs to be minimal, at best.
A roller bearing is useless where a ball bearing is required....it can not control endplay. And a ball bearing has such a small "contact" area that it is virtually useless where a roller bearing is required.

The last pump which looked like these (and were made in China), that I destructively tested had ball bearings in both locations. I stood and stared at this bearing in disbelief, wondering how many "minutes" a ball bearing could possibly do the job of a roller bearing......not many!

While I'm not saying this is the case, with either of these two pumps, until they are cut apart and inspected, I would not be anxious to bolt one on.
If someone wants to send me one, I'd be happy to destroy it and look.

firemn131

On its way.

See the longer message I sent you.

Thanks

khalloudy

I only use factory WP... this is one of those items you don’t wanna play footsie with and run experiments. All the horror stories.. why bother.

worf928

ISO 9xxx just means that you have an audited process for making what you make the same way with the same quality every time you make it.

And if your ISO process is ...

... to make $hity parts then you can be assured that they will be $hity each and every time as Dr.B points out —^.

Last, let’s not even talk about ISO certification when it comes to software development.

dr bob

I've not seen anything like ISO certification for software short of nuclear, and then the standards are so much more strict that ISO need not bother. Even outside of the nuclear side, I do a lot more documentation than actual programming these days, and in each case the documentation includes a specific reference to a specific code section where a function is located. Conversely, each section of code includes a comment section that includes a description and also refers to the section of documentation where the function is described. The good news is that I've been able to write tools that keep track of the xrefs both ways, so a lot of the code is somewhat self-documenting. The simulation and real-world test protocols are generated with the core code and documentation, along with functional demo descriptions. Folks -love- well-documented code, except when they have to pay for it from scratch.

worf928

It exists. Having absorbed knowledge of ISO, Audits, etc. from my BioTech wife for ... a long time ... the first time I was introduced to the notion of an ISO audit for software process and then 'digging' into how the company passed those audits, I told my boss that if he picked any of the projects I was running for audit that I would throw the company under the bus. Hard. Long story there. TL: DR; they had a documented process that no project followed but 'audited' projects were required to fill-in the documentation (i.e. lie.) So, they had ISO cert for what was effectively an SEI Level-0 process. At best. To be fair, many projects (mine included) did have good processes that could, notionally, have passed an ISO audit. But, those processes were not the sanctioned processes.

25 years ago when my company was writing APIs for embedded, we first developed a facility for doing more-or-less the same thing. It was really awesome to spend almost no time on documentation. That allowed us to spend more time on code review, test, etc.

There's a lot of things folks love until the have to pay for it: automated unit tests, code reviews, etc.
Only some folks can be convinced that it it's a pay now or pay more later thing.

Petza914

Doesn't matter what bearing is in these pumps because they also have a metal impeller - that's the non-starter here.

Info about metal impeller pumps was discussed yesterday in the DIY Solutions brand waterpump thread here - https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ater-pump.htmlt=1201123

Wisconsin Joe

The early 944 rear wheel bearing (the one that's the same as the 924) is a pair of bearings. One roller, one ball. Depending on what source you use, the roller bearing was superseded by a ball bearing unit.

Don't believe it. It needs the roller bearing. Using a ball bearing in place of it doesn't last very long at all. Guess how I know this.

That was my very thought, too.

While a metal impeller may be a bit more efficient, the 928 cooling system is robust enough that a plastic impeller that's a bit less efficient, but won't act like a drill press in the block, is a better choice.

In the linked thread, Hacker called it a 'lathe.' That's not correct. I was taught that when the work piece moves, and the tool stays still, it's a lathe. When the work piece stays still and the tool moves, it's a 'drill press'. So the metal impeller chewing it's merry way into the block would be a drill press. A bit pedantic, perhaps.