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Carl's new Intake vs AMV8 project intake (pros and cons)Discussion
Carl's intake looks amazing and is just what we have all been talking about for sometime. It seems more convenient than the CF intake system, in that it more resembles the stock configuration (TB feeding from underneath and plumbed rearward).
The HP gains vs the stock manifold are even more than what the CF produced and am wondering if that is due to the engine management system used, or the design of the manifold. (the CF manifold installations were using stock MAF and dual TBs) . Carl's manifold (654) showed near the same HP at 4000 to 4500rpm , but once 4600 was hit, the power was 50hp gains (the gain i got from going from a 5litter to stroker) and then, it took off from there. ALL in the range you use the engine at the track. 4500rpm to 6500rpm is where you use the engine if you are racing. NEVER does your RPM go lower, unless you are either coasting into, or through a turn. At the exit of ALL racing turns, the RPM will always be in this sweetspot range of RPM. so, WELL done Carl!
Now the questions of comparison to what i have been working on with the Aston Martin Intake. I would like to do a comparison to what might be a more cost effective solution or would just plain work better or be an easier project.
A quick review to what I've planned:
1. use a modified AM V8 intake that has the legs cut off and mated with a wider foot print set of legs mated to the Hans adapters
2. use an aftermarket 90-100mm TB
3. use the stock MAF
4 use a cone filter with an entrance just in front of the radiator.
5. modify oil filler area components.
With carls intake, it surely looks as that it might be able to mate the aftermarket throttle body to the stock MAF and maybe even use the stock air box..... if not, maybe mount through the firewall , into the Hivac area with a cone filter,or maybe the stock airbox.
I wonder if carl has a plan to try a stock MAF configuration to just make his intake more of a bolt on. certainly with a motor at 50less hp to start, even a more paltry 100hp gain vs his 150hp gain on the 450hp baseline comparison would be nothing short of spectacular. if you look at the dyno runs of carl's comparison. you see it has a 150hp gain , the stock making peak at near 5500rpm and the "654" making it at near redline. Even still, at the same peal hp RPM of the stock manifold, the "654" still makes 100 more HP (at 5500rpm) . this is what we have been waiting for. amazing!
if the height that looks a little high right now, can be lowered for a stock hood, carl's intake would be a slam dunk it seems.
the question becomes cost.
any thoughts on the options here?
attached are pics of the Carl "654" manifold, with its HP numbers vs a stock 5.0L manifold on the same engine.. the last dyno run is the CF intake on Anderson's and Fan's car , both making near 420rwhp as a baseline before the CF intake
real question is how much do you have to modify the AM manifold to fit? and once it mates up, does it fit under the hood?
Carl seems to have taken all that guess work and monkeying around out of the equation with an apparent proven solution for you......therefore, a cost
I think it looks surprisingly complete. just now question the plumbing rearward, Are there costs available yet for the Carl 654 intake?
as far as the AM intake goes, im pretty confident based on measurements, it will fit . the only mods i need to make are to the oil filler. (not that difficult but carls doesnt need to make that mod). and, with the location of the TB in the near stock location, refitting the stock throttle linkage would be easier as well.
Mark, maybe give Carl a call to get all of your questions answered. This is a custom intake build for a custom motor, you have a custom motor, ask Carl to make you a custom intake.....
Mark, maybe give Carl a call to get all of your questions answered. This is a custom intake build for a custom motor, you have a custom motor, ask Carl to make you a custom intake.....
It was a lot of work reading through the 59 pages of the other thread, but it sounds like its a universal intake that had one small change coming in the future... that of the lower overall height change.
i would be great to discuss hear as im sure many have some of the same questions.
Sounds like the greg brown intake was much more involved from a manufacturing perspective (truly custom) than this one, thus making it more cost effective. obviously, the gains are tremendous. sounds like there is even interest to bolt this on a 5 liter engine as well.
Just trying to understand the costs, modifications to make work, and contrast to what I've been working on.
You asked the most important question Mark should have asked of Carl before starting such a thread. We've been suggesting Mark have such an intake made for how many years now.
Lots of variable which depend on the builder and the buyers budget, not sure what there is to decide on the forum, but here we are!
Carl's intake looks amazing and is just what we have all been talking about for sometime.
Agreed!
Carl's manifold (654) showed near the same HP at 4000 to 4500rpm , but once 4600 was hit, the power was 50hp gains (the gain i got from going from a 5litter to stroker) and then, it took off from there. ALL in the range you use the engine at the track. 4500rpm to 6500rpm is where you use the engine if you are racing. NEVER does your RPM go lower, unless you are either coasting into, or through a turn. At the exit of ALL racing turns, the RPM will always be in this sweetspot range of RPM. so, WELL done Carl!
Hear! Hear!
Now the questions of comparison to what i have been working on with the Aston Martin Intake. I would like to do a comparison to what might be a more cost effective solution or would just plain work better or be an easier project.
Mark, what are the heights at the front and rear of the top of the AM plenum?
The stock S4 intake dimensions measured from bottom of mounting flange:
6.5" to top of plenum in front
8.0" to top of plenum in rear
If the AM intake is much taller, it will be a problem and possibly end its consideration.
if you look at the dyno runs of carl's comparison. you see it has a 150hp gain , the stock making peak at near 5500rpm and the "654" making it at near redline. Even still, at the same peal hp RPM of the stock manifold, the "654" still makes 100 more HP (at 5500rpm) . this is what we have been waiting for. amazing!
if the height that looks a little high right now, can be lowered for a stock hood, carl's intake would be a slam dunk it seems.
Here's your answer:
Originally Posted by Carl Fausett
I'm going to make a cant-roof version of this intake manifold next. It will be lower at the front than at the back, so that the whole thing will fit under a stock 928 hood.
Compared to this manifold, the intake runner lengths will vary in length front-to-back so the power curve will be even broader, although the peak HP may not be quite as high.
Originally Posted by mark kibort
Sounds like the greg brown intake was much more involved from a manufacturing perspective (truly custom) than this one, thus making it more cost effective. obviously, the gains are tremendous. sounds like there is even interest to bolt this on a 5 liter engine as well.
The power delivery of Carl's intake is PERFECT for a big stroker. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it'll be too big for my 5.0 below.
Mark, what are the heights at the front and rear of the top of the AM plenum?
The stock S4 intake dimensions measured from bottom of mounting flange:
6.5" to top of plenum in front
8.0" to top of plenum in rear
If the AM intake is much taller, it will be a problem and possibly end its consideration.
Here's your answer:
The power delivery of Carl's intake is PERFECT for a big stroker. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it'll be too big for my 5.0 below.
Ronn's GT, on the road again...
That looks so nice! i know that car!! where are you running it? btw, what was done to the front fenders. they look really wide , but very stock'ish too? I know the rears are GTS style modified, but what about the front.
why do you think it would be too big for your 5 liter? I'm betting it would work amazingly well!
as far as the AM intake. it looks like it will fit , but will be close unless i make it slightly canted in the front. i dont want to do that, as to not have to modify things in the front of the engine for the TB and intake fuel rail etc. but at first measurements, it looks like it will fit.
I just measured again, more closely. looks like there is NO way it will fit, unless it is mounted rear ward, in which case there is room. the oil filler will need to come down .5 " and the sensors (2) of them, willl have to be re-positioned. at the firewall, the throttle body would start at the firewall and ill need to fit the TB, the maf and a curved intake to mount a filter . dont think there is enough room for all that..........looks like its pointing toward carls intake as the only solution!
Carl's intake looks amazing and is just what we have all been talking about for sometime. It seems more convenient than the CF intake system, in that it more resembles the stock configuration (TB feeding from underneath and plumbed rearward).
The HP gains vs the stock manifold are even more than what the CF produced and am wondering if that is due to the engine management system used, or the design of the manifold. (the CF manifold installations were using stock MAF and dual TBs) . Carl's manifold (654) showed near the same HP at 4000 to 4500rpm , but once 4600 was hit, the power was 50hp gains (the gain i got from going from a 5litter to stroker) and then, it took off from there. ALL in the range you use the engine at the track. 4500rpm to 6500rpm is where you use the engine if you are racing. NEVER does your RPM go lower, unless you are either coasting into, or through a turn. At the exit of ALL racing turns, the RPM will always be in this sweetspot range of RPM. so, WELL done Carl!
Now the questions of comparison to what i have been working on with the Aston Martin Intake. I would like to do a comparison to what might be a more cost effective solution or would just plain work better or be an easier project.
A quick review to what I've planned:
1. use a modified AM V8 intake that has the legs cut off and mated with a wider foot print set of legs mated to the Hans adapters
2. use an aftermarket 90-100mm TB
3. use the stock MAF
4 use a cone filter with an entrance just in front of the radiator.
5. modify oil filler area components.
With carls intake, it surely looks as that it might be able to mate the aftermarket throttle body to the stock MAF and maybe even use the stock air box..... if not, maybe mount through the firewall , into the Hivac area with a cone filter,or maybe the stock airbox.
I wonder if carl has a plan to try a stock MAF configuration to just make his intake more of a bolt on. certainly with a motor at 50less hp to start, even a more paltry 100hp gain vs his 150hp gain on the 450hp baseline comparison would be nothing short of spectacular. if you look at the dyno runs of carl's comparison. you see it has a 150hp gain , the stock making peak at near 5500rpm and the "654" making it at near redline. Even still, at the same peal hp RPM of the stock manifold, the "654" still makes 100 more HP (at 5500rpm) . this is what we have been waiting for. amazing!
if the height that looks a little high right now, can be lowered for a stock hood, carl's intake would be a slam dunk it seems.
the question becomes cost.
any thoughts on the options here?
attached are pics of the Carl "654" manifold, with its HP numbers vs a stock 5.0L manifold on the same engine.. the last dyno run is the CF intake on Anderson's and Fan's car , both making near 420rwhp as a baseline before the CF intake
Mk
I have no idea of the cross sectional runner size of either manifold....however, the AM manifold appears to have ample runner cross section, from the pictures.
Draw a diagram of how the air has to flow through Carl's intake, in order to get to the intake valves. Now draw a diagram of how the air has to flow through the AM intake, in order to get to the intake valves. Note that the air through an AM manifold has one less 180 degree bend to make.....that's going to be a significant difference.
Measure the intake runner length of the AM manifold and compare that to the runner length of Carl's intake. 1.5 times as long? Twice as long?
Cross sectional runner size being equal, the AM manifold should make considerably more torque....everywhere. There might be a small loss in horsepower on the very top end compared to Carl's intake, because of the longer runners.
How you are going to get either intake under a hood is beyond me.
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
11-28-2017, 03:18 PM
Carl's new Intake vs AMV8 project intake (pros and cons)Discussion
where are you running it? btw, what was done to the front fenders. they look really wide , but very stock'ish too? I know the rears are GTS style modified, but what about the front.
