Is there any advantage to a catch can?
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Is there any advantage to a catch can?
I was wondering about this the other day.
I had purchased a nice catch can set up for installation on the Volvo to help with the turbo blow by, but never got around to it before we sold the wagon off into the abyss.
Certainly, I have ample oil left in the intake from the stock breather system on the S3. Even with extra baffle in the filler neck, etc.
I remember the Sharkvent system (not sure if that kit is still in production or not).
This would not have the capability to drain back into the sump like the DR version, but I'm in there enough to empty a can on a regular basis.
What say the collective?
I had purchased a nice catch can set up for installation on the Volvo to help with the turbo blow by, but never got around to it before we sold the wagon off into the abyss.
Certainly, I have ample oil left in the intake from the stock breather system on the S3. Even with extra baffle in the filler neck, etc.
I remember the Sharkvent system (not sure if that kit is still in production or not).
This would not have the capability to drain back into the sump like the DR version, but I'm in there enough to empty a can on a regular basis.
What say the collective?
#3
Former Vendor
I was wondering about this the other day.
I had purchased a nice catch can set up for installation on the Volvo to help with the turbo blow by, but never got around to it before we sold the wagon off into the abyss.
Certainly, I have ample oil left in the intake from the stock breather system on the S3. Even with extra baffle in the filler neck, etc.
I remember the Sharkvent system (not sure if that kit is still in production or not).
This would not have the capability to drain back into the sump like the DR version, but I'm in there enough to empty a can on a regular basis.
What say the collective?
I had purchased a nice catch can set up for installation on the Volvo to help with the turbo blow by, but never got around to it before we sold the wagon off into the abyss.
Certainly, I have ample oil left in the intake from the stock breather system on the S3. Even with extra baffle in the filler neck, etc.
I remember the Sharkvent system (not sure if that kit is still in production or not).
This would not have the capability to drain back into the sump like the DR version, but I'm in there enough to empty a can on a regular basis.
What say the collective?
And like the S4 variant, oil in the intake system lowers the effective octane rating of the fuel and is responsible for a large amount of the carbon deposits on the pistons.
I just got done engineering and fabricating a complete ventilation system for the S3 variant, to keep oil out of the intake system.
The S3 proved to be an interesting challenge, because of the lack of room for additional pieces.
The prototype parts are on an large displacement engine, for testing.
#4
Rennlist Member
Greg, I am interested in this when you are out of prototype stage.
Crumpler, the Sharkvent system is out of production. I tried to order one earlier this year.
Crumpler, the Sharkvent system is out of production. I tried to order one earlier this year.
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks guys for the feedback.
This is encouraging to know I'm not completely crazy yet.
I Bet the GB system will be bulletproof, like all his other designs.
I will try and fabricate something in the meantime.
In regards to the actual plumbing, somebody feel free to critique the rough sketch below and give me some feedback on the modifications please.
I can't remember which line off the filler neck has the check valve in it, lol.
This is encouraging to know I'm not completely crazy yet.
I Bet the GB system will be bulletproof, like all his other designs.
I will try and fabricate something in the meantime.
In regards to the actual plumbing, somebody feel free to critique the rough sketch below and give me some feedback on the modifications please.
I can't remember which line off the filler neck has the check valve in it, lol.
#7
I wonder what the power increase would be for a GTS, where all you do is drill out the oil drain holes in the pistons and shark tune. There really isn't a way to tell how much the octane is lowered but I'm betting it is a lot.
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#8
Electron Wrangler
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In my GTS oil separation system the whole thing is closed back into the CAI - it is about the easiest part of the system to implement.
Alan
#9
Former Vendor
Way too much oil for the Mann filter to deal with, in these engines. Additionally, the engine compartments are so cramped on the S3 variant that there is not any place to mount the Provent filter.
Once the Provent filter gets saturated with oil, it no longer will flow enough air and the crankcase pressure goes up, again.
Ran into this problem with some GTS engines that had rings that were too gunked up, which forced too much oil to the Provent, overwhelming it. I found that multiple filter changes were sometimes required on these GTS engines to "get" the rings to seal/reseal.
Found out that it is sometimes tough to cure a bad design and years of poorly sealed rings, instantly.
For the S3 application, I had to engineer a different approach.
Once the Provent filter gets saturated with oil, it no longer will flow enough air and the crankcase pressure goes up, again.
Ran into this problem with some GTS engines that had rings that were too gunked up, which forced too much oil to the Provent, overwhelming it. I found that multiple filter changes were sometimes required on these GTS engines to "get" the rings to seal/reseal.
Found out that it is sometimes tough to cure a bad design and years of poorly sealed rings, instantly.
For the S3 application, I had to engineer a different approach.
#10
Former Vendor
Thanks guys for the feedback.
This is encouraging to know I'm not completely crazy yet.
I Bet the GB system will be bulletproof, like all his other designs.
I will try and fabricate something in the meantime.
In regards to the actual plumbing, somebody feel free to critique the rough sketch below and give me some feedback on the modifications please.
I can't remember which line off the filler neck has the check valve in it, lol.
This is encouraging to know I'm not completely crazy yet.
I Bet the GB system will be bulletproof, like all his other designs.
I will try and fabricate something in the meantime.
In regards to the actual plumbing, somebody feel free to critique the rough sketch below and give me some feedback on the modifications please.
I can't remember which line off the filler neck has the check valve in it, lol.
Venting any crankcase to atmosphere has been illegal since 1957.....for a very good reason.....very bad stuff for the environment.
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Perhaps, I spent too much time in the Volvo chat room.
No, closed system would be just as good for me.
Let me post my understanding of the stock system below.
An inline can is doable.
I will look at different options tonight.
#12
Electron Wrangler
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Way too much oil for the Mann filter to deal with, in these engines. Additionally, the engine compartments are so cramped on the S3 variant that there is not any place to mount the Provent filter.
Once the Provent filter gets saturated with oil, it no longer will flow enough air and the crankcase pressure goes up, again.
Ran into this problem with some GTS engines that had rings that were too gunked up, which forced too much oil to the Provent, overwhelming it. I found that multiple filter changes were sometimes required on these GTS engines to "get" the rings to seal/reseal.
Found out that it is sometimes tough to cure a bad design and years of poorly sealed rings, instantly.
For the S3 application, I had to engineer a different approach.
Once the Provent filter gets saturated with oil, it no longer will flow enough air and the crankcase pressure goes up, again.
Ran into this problem with some GTS engines that had rings that were too gunked up, which forced too much oil to the Provent, overwhelming it. I found that multiple filter changes were sometimes required on these GTS engines to "get" the rings to seal/reseal.
Found out that it is sometimes tough to cure a bad design and years of poorly sealed rings, instantly.
For the S3 application, I had to engineer a different approach.
How does an S3 compare to a GTS for oil ingestion - worse?
Anyway you are right - its not so easy to fix what Porsche never really did get (even close to) right on the PCV system.
Alan
#13
Former Vendor
The Provents do come in various sizes... While size & space in the engine compartments are certainly an issue there is still lots of space in the front fenders. I do use a Provent 200 on my GTS - it has a vacuum pump and another centrifugal separator in front of it stripping out most of the oil. But certainly doesn't get overwhelmed in that configuration.
How does an S3 compare to a GTS for oil ingestion - worse?
Anyway you are right - its not so easy to fix what Porsche never really did get (even close to) right on the PCV system.
Alan
How does an S3 compare to a GTS for oil ingestion - worse?
Anyway you are right - its not so easy to fix what Porsche never really did get (even close to) right on the PCV system.
Alan
They also hAve two plenums with horizontal air flow and internal velocity stacks that act like oil separators. The plenums get filled with oil, but not as much oil reaches the cylinders, because of this design.
#14
Electron Wrangler
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S3 engines do not use the copious amounts of oil a 100,000 mile GTS uses....they have oil return holes in the pistons, unlike the GTS engines.
They also hAve two plenums with horizontal air flow and internal velocity stacks that act like oil separators. The plenums get filled with oil, but not as much oil reaches the cylinders, because of this design.
They also hAve two plenums with horizontal air flow and internal velocity stacks that act like oil separators. The plenums get filled with oil, but not as much oil reaches the cylinders, because of this design.
Probably would mean welding on a drain port flush with the interior bottom of the plenums each side - maybe at the lower front end so you can drain as you brake?
Alan
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ok gentleman, before I jump in on this, let me ask a question to the forum. I don't really have an engineering degree to tarnish here, so let me put this out there for discussion:
How much vacuum do I need to effectively pull oil vapor thru a catch can?
The stock system, I assume, puts the oil vapor into the throttle body in order to combust it but also to pull it thru the breather system under vacuum right?
If I eliminate the communication from block to the throttle body, and run lines from cam cover into one line and run that thru an in-line catch can -- with the destination of that line into the oil filler neck base... Does that accomplish what I effectively want, in a closed system, without overwhelming the can right away?
In the stock system, the filler neck gets oil vapor from the front half of the block and also from what ever gets past the baffles right?
It essentially has two vacuum points (one at base of neck and one on neck). I don't know how much breathing is needed there either, but I could leave the smaller line in tact, that hits the filler cap area.
How much vacuum do I need to effectively pull oil vapor thru a catch can?
The stock system, I assume, puts the oil vapor into the throttle body in order to combust it but also to pull it thru the breather system under vacuum right?
If I eliminate the communication from block to the throttle body, and run lines from cam cover into one line and run that thru an in-line catch can -- with the destination of that line into the oil filler neck base... Does that accomplish what I effectively want, in a closed system, without overwhelming the can right away?
In the stock system, the filler neck gets oil vapor from the front half of the block and also from what ever gets past the baffles right?
It essentially has two vacuum points (one at base of neck and one on neck). I don't know how much breathing is needed there either, but I could leave the smaller line in tact, that hits the filler cap area.