ACSGP

Been awhile since I've been back on Rennlist since I sold my 964 back in 2011.

A nice, 3 owner, 120k mile Turbo S has come up for sale, and I have a couple of questions, not least whether it may affect the value as the car is currently stock. Haven't bought it yet.

1. I'd like more low-end torque, and understand that changing the internals sympathetically via a hybrid set-up on the existing K26/8 would do the job? Correct? Would I have to re-map the ECU too?

2. Anyone put 18" Fuchs on their cars? They're forged, so would be light and improve performance. I can get them via Design911 in the UK. Any other forged, light monoblocks available?

http://www.design911.com/Porsche/944...-cmo123-ct308/

3. Should I get the crankshaft worked on by Lindsey Racing, for example? And can I improve oiling without going the dry sump route?

4. Probably the most controversial - I'd like to remove the torsion bar, and replace the entire suspension with matched coilovers and sway bars. Will this substantially improve rear suspension compliance? I'm a big fan of the KW V3s I had on my 964.

Thanks all.
Andrew

V2Rocket

1) you don't need to change much of anything. Instead buy the offset camshaft key from 928 motor sports and install it with the next belt change. Run it 2 or 4 degrees advanced and you'll be amazed at the low end power difference.

Alternatively, getting an ecu chip will help a lot, or converting to maf/map setup.

3) no real need to modify or change anything on the bottom end if the car is street driven. Keep the oil sump full of 20W50 and make sure oil temperature is in check...

2 and 4 are matters of preference that i can't answer for you. Although on a street car I can't see any justification for coil overs.

ACSGP

Thanks. Can you elaborate on good, off the shelf chips?

So no real love for hybrid turbos?

V2Rocket

Plenty of love for turbos, but the cam key will have a huge effect for $20 while you sort out what turbo you want

KVDR

Re: camshaft offset keys - I did a search of this forum and the 951 one and didn't find much.

Would be great if more people could post their experience with them. It would be really nice to have more low-end torque for around town.

My biggest concern is that they look prone to shearing off - although I'd expect to see posts warning about that.

odonnell

I've never heard of a cam advance key actually shearing, but, YMMV.

to the OP: For a 951, there are a lot of documented upgrade routes out there. What are your power goals? For low end, a tune will really help... you can safely run a lot more timing than the stock tune has set.

JimV8

You'd be best served leaving it completely stock, that is unless it's been modded already. Changing the suspension bushings and hoses are probably a good idea, but thats really just maintenance anyway.

ACSGP

Thanks all. So the cam key + hybrid turbo + re-mapped ECU recommended.

Still feel that I should checkout the crankshaft due to it's age. Top-end overhaul done 2 years ago + bare metal re-spray.

Best
Andrew

mrgreenjeans

This is small stuff but worth repeating.

There is NO Turbo S for 1989, but there was a Turbo S for the middle of 1988 to the end--- the '88.2 model. The cars are the same , but the name changed ( reverted ) for 1989.

There is a virtual identical spec on the 1989 - 951 as this ' 88.2 model Turbo S, but it was sold and marketed by Porsche as once again the 944 Turbo as it was called previously. Or internal designation coded 951. They were all M030 cars with most having the high complement of options including LSD and 10 speaker sound system. They had the hardened gearsets in the lower gears for durability and fast, hard shifting on the street or for Track use. Koni Adjustables and sport springs were part of the deal. Most came with the seven spoke forged FUCHS wheels which were similar but had deeper cutouts than, the 928S FUCHS Gullydoeckels they replaced.

I can vouch for the fact there is little to no need for doing much with these cars for street use in the way of suspension compliance or for power. If you can get ahold of a chip that Porsche sold over the counter at one time ( or a comparable chip ) as what was once known as the PORSCHE 'Cup Chip', you will be making at the rear wheels 300 hp. You will be developing 300 ft. lbs of torque with virtually no turbo lag. This is with a stock air cleaner and all stock induction pieces in place.

The car I own is an '89 Turbo and has dyno sheets stating the above numbers after the Cup Chip was intstalled. ( VERY early in it's life ). It has also been radar trapped at 172 mph on a closed course on a calm, clear, cool day with low humidity.

I have no issues with performance whatsoever and no complaints. If you need more power than this, I suggest the GT3 of 996, 997, or 991 models, but know that the first two have been handily kept in check by comparative drivers of same skill level on many tracks. The 951 Turbo S variant from '88.2 and the 951 Turbo of '89 are formidable cars. They garner respect from all high performance drivers and have shown their heels to most challengers just the way they came from Porsche.

ACSGP

Thanks for this, and appreciate the time and effort to respond.

Couple of clarifications.

This is an 88 Turbo S, according to the owner. I will validate this direct with Porsche once I see the car. I used 89 as I wasn't sure about the naming convention for models in the US. As an example, I own a 2010 S4, and based on what I've read in Audizine, it will be referred to as a 2011 model.

I'm looking at the car due to its provenance, more than anything. Not looking to track it, or to boost performance except to make it more drivable as a daily. So more torque lower down the curve, and better suspension compliance.

I'm a big fan of the OE+ upgrade path, and was looking to change the tip box on my 964 to the factory 964 Cup tip version that Walther Rohl drove (never happened).

grenadiers

I seldom take my '89 951 to the grocery store, or other errands, it's too much of a parking lot dent magnet! I can park as far away as possible, all by my lonesome, and when I get back, there will half a dozen or more cars close by. Weird. However, I do like to drive it around town, then to mountain roads (Arizona), and back.

The car came with Lindsey Racing DME and KLR chips, and they're great when the pedal is to the floor. But, two things for me anyway, on local town driving, has been the addition of the Lindsey boost enhancer and just using a lower gear when driving. Getting the heavy car started after a stop light, well, someone's Mom's mini-van will be two car lengths ahead in no time!

ACSGP

Not buying the car for the track or stoplight racing. Love restoring interesting old cars, and a Turbo S won't break the bank.

dmjames

Not sure on the offset key w/ turbo, but I LOVE the 4-degree on my NA. Major boost on the low-end for my 84.

V2Rocket

Rogue_Ant, who was probably the first to experiment with the offset cam key on the NA, was so impressed by the change in drivability of his NA, that he did it to his 951 as well, to great benefit.

Makes sense, since the early NA and the 951 have the exact same camshaft, that what benefits one would help the other too.

jeff968

While we're on small stuff, I've never heard of a mid-year model introduction referred to as a .2. Always a .5.

For example, and 85.5 944 gets you the revised dash. I've never seen an 85.2 IMHO of course.