Turbocharging a NA 944
03-10-2016, 06:38 PM
#31
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8 sec in the 1/8 is about 13 in the 1/4. Why so slow? (8 sec 1/4 is like 2000 horsepower).
$7K is doable with $10k-$15k in labor value. Not many people can fab or even scrounge to get a conversion down that cheap. From what I read and the one car I have seen, even pretty expensive conversions have a sort of "kit car" experience. Cheap ones are pretty Roadkill. I love Roadkill and would love to have the time and money to build my own Rotsun turbo 4.3 Z-car or similar but it's not currently an option. Someday...
http://www.hotrod.com/news/1601-road...arnage-inside/
$7K is doable with $10k-$15k in labor value. Not many people can fab or even scrounge to get a conversion down that cheap. From what I read and the one car I have seen, even pretty expensive conversions have a sort of "kit car" experience. Cheap ones are pretty Roadkill. I love Roadkill and would love to have the time and money to build my own Rotsun turbo 4.3 Z-car or similar but it's not currently an option. Someday...
http://www.hotrod.com/news/1601-road...arnage-inside/
Looks like that car is actually 960HP. IIRC the motor motor is not the LM7 iron block 5.3, but the aluminum LM4 version. The bottom end is stock and it has 243 heads on it (I think that is what the LM4 came with too). He has BTR valve springs, LS7 lifters and a drop-in cam. The turbo cold side is 78mm. I think he is running E85 though.
The time slip below identifies him as P108.
The build I have chosen to do for a 944 track car (for Sonoma & Thunderhill) would have a 4.8L LR4 from a 1500 series truck. I have elected to use an LS3 cam, blue ZO6 valve springs and pushrods to match the cam. Intake would be off of an LS6 ZO6 motor, and EFI would be Microsquirt with 36 lb injectors. With that cam profile, the power band is between 3,000-6,700.
For the record, I have an LS3 cam I paid $70 for, and blue valve springs are only $60. There's an LR4 not too far from me for only $500 in a wrecking yard with a 140k on the clock. Include Texas Performance Concepts deluxe kit at $2400, and I am still under $4,000. Just add the car...
I do my own fabwork, but I have a family member that taught me to weld a LONG time ago. I may pay him a visit again to catch up on lessons when the time comes to drop in a turbo.
03-10-2016, 07:37 PM
#32
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There's a $5K 951 in Denver right now with a bad engine or something, so you'd be at $9K and if your time is free you might have it together for $15K after all the WYAAIts. Probably more if you want power steering and brakes. You will need a different intake, accessory brackets, maybe a throttle body, fans, maybe a radiator, air filter, air intake, exhaust work (Kali emissions? Then you need cats, possibly four, maybe AIR pump, a working Check Engine light...).
It adds up fast. My first $5000 944S2 ran and drove but I was in it for $8K before I could hardly blink and that was all stock, no race parts. No swap.
If you get it done for $10K you can build me one for the same price, how does that sound :-) ?
-Joel.
It adds up fast. My first $5000 944S2 ran and drove but I was in it for $8K before I could hardly blink and that was all stock, no race parts. No swap.
If you get it done for $10K you can build me one for the same price, how does that sound :-) ?
-Joel.
Last edited by Jfrahm; 03-10-2016 at 09:19 PM.
03-10-2016, 08:00 PM
#33
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There's a $1500 944 not too far from me. I am waiting on a 968 purchase right now. If it falls through, I am going ***** to the walls on getting a swapped 944 together.
Funny thing you mentioned about the intake as I have already collected some 3" aluminum tubing and bends off ebay for a cold air intake I was doing on the 928 similar to Roger's EIS setup. In the end I scrapped it since the state of CA is the smog **** capital of this country. I would prefer the 928 streetable, the 944 I could care less as I just want to beat up on PCA GT3s...
The steering rack will be converted to manual via a thread I saw on here and there will be no AC or PS. Just an alternator as the only accessory in an otherwise mostly empty engine compartment, save for the engine and its necessities.
Funny thing you mentioned about the intake as I have already collected some 3" aluminum tubing and bends off ebay for a cold air intake I was doing on the 928 similar to Roger's EIS setup. In the end I scrapped it since the state of CA is the smog **** capital of this country. I would prefer the 928 streetable, the 944 I could care less as I just want to beat up on PCA GT3s...
The steering rack will be converted to manual via a thread I saw on here and there will be no AC or PS. Just an alternator as the only accessory in an otherwise mostly empty engine compartment, save for the engine and its necessities.
03-11-2016, 12:13 PM
#34
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Ahh, good. $1500 944NAs typically are very well sorted out and you will have a V8 track car built cheaply with no unforeseen additional costs. :-) Looking forward to updates and the delivery date for my car.
03-11-2016, 12:33 PM
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03-11-2016, 02:21 PM
#36
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03-11-2016, 03:17 PM
#38
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OD, we have to talk about this swap via PM. I am really interested in doing a swapped track car and would like some tips on what to look out for in these chassis.
03-11-2016, 04:41 PM
#39
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The 944T is NOT soooooooooo much better than a V8 944.
I would ask if you've gone TOTALLY INSANE... but that would be rude.
i know you love your car. and for this reason, i forgive you.
03-11-2016, 04:45 PM
#40
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Most of the V8 conversions you see in 944s...especially n/a's are cheap and nasty and an insult to the brand. They have some lazy no revving **** poor powered 'thing' that inspires boring driving. There are a few exceptions where people have done a good job and spent the money to do so. Even so, virtually all the in car video I've seen of these cars on the track makes me yawn. Like a lazy old powerboat that requires no skill to operate. Totally uninspiring.
03-11-2016, 05:15 PM
#42
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Most of the V8 conversions you see in 944s...especially n/a's are cheap and nasty and an insult to the brand. They have some lazy no revving **** poor powered 'thing' that inspires boring driving. There are a few exceptions where people have done a good job and spent the money to do so. Even so, virtually all the in car video I've seen of these cars on the track makes me yawn. Like a lazy old powerboat that requires no skill to operate. Totally uninspiring.
Odurandina's LS powered 968 is sitting in my driveway as we speak. You don't drive it, you pilot it.....like a rocket. The engine only has a couple of modes. It has idle, used for sitting at lights and moving down surface streets.
Then there is what I call "occasionally touching the go pedal" that causes the car to crawl up the *** of all other cars on the road followed my heavy use of the GTS brakes.
Then there is the "OH MY ****ING GOD" mode that is a kin to the Chinese city of Tianjin that had the exotic chemical explosion a few years back.
I've yet to be able to hold the go pedal until the tires stop spinning on their own. It's a bottle rocket on 'roids. It does burnouts at will. It went from 80 to 140mph in a matter of a couple seconds and I didn't even know it had a sixth gear.
Odurandino needs to thank the Porsche Gods that he only has the 968 fuel pump. If it had the 928GTS pump, the car would be well into the 800HP range and completely uncontrollable.
If anyone went full retard in this thread.....It was Odurandino when he penciled out the specs on this engine.
03-11-2016, 05:26 PM
#44
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Doug,
to be fair, CBM Motorsports guys says we're at 75% with the 968 fuel pump.
engine will make about 520 hp at the crank w/ the correct pump and tune.
yes, compared to Patrick's screaming race car, that's still slow. in any case,
time to install the GTS fuel pump and fire extinguisher.
oh, and hey Rocket, no more de-lam
wintah is ovaar. spending the day with Ted at the aquarium and getting on a plane.
.
to be fair, CBM Motorsports guys says we're at 75% with the 968 fuel pump.
engine will make about 520 hp at the crank w/ the correct pump and tune.
yes, compared to Patrick's screaming race car, that's still slow. in any case,
time to install the GTS fuel pump and fire extinguisher.
oh, and hey Rocket, no more de-lam
wintah is ovaar. spending the day with Ted at the aquarium and getting on a plane.
.
03-11-2016, 06:09 PM
#45
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Most of the V8 conversions you see in 944s...especially n/a's are cheap and nasty and an insult to the brand. They have some lazy no revving **** poor powered 'thing' that inspires boring driving. There are a few exceptions where people have done a good job and spent the money to do so. Even so, virtually all the in car video I've seen of these cars on the track makes me yawn. Like a lazy old powerboat that requires no skill to operate. Totally uninspiring.
wide power bands and F1 boxes with comfort, sport and racing modes.
I'll take my wide power band for 600 dollars Alex and my near perfect from 2-3-4-5-6 manual box over any gutless hp peaky thing courting meltdown, requring NASA-level know how, lots of time off the road with hard running examples, and endless money pit process. Your race car is not the range, but the exception. for the masses, failed engines ARE A FAR-TOO-OFTEN OCCURANCE in 944T ownership. especially at mr build guy shop + dyno. it's just reality w/ hundreds of documented cases to cite. not so with a reliable, steady LS motor.
Originally Posted by well known 944V8 guy
The LSx conversion is the way to go for sure. And anybody that says it's not a Porsche is full of it. The 924 runs an Audi engine and trans (almost all of them). The 944/968 runs an Audi trans. And there is a whole slew of VW and Audi part numbers that cross reference all over the entire generation of the 924/944/968.
And if Porsche built a 944 engine worth a crap there would be a LOT more 944's racing and the need to put in a real engine would never exist in the first place.
You can knock it. But until you drive one you have no idea what you're missing.
I've raced a LSx 951 since 2006 and it's been the most reliable, most fun race car that I've ever driven. And I've beat a TON of new GT3's and Cup Cars in the process over the years in the GT classes.
That said, I ditched my street based LSx 951 race car (still street legal BTW) and built a full-tilt pro built 951 race car with a LSx engine. Built by none other than the builder of ORCA himself (which BTW was the car he built before ORCA, and then went back to him to take to the level necessary to beat new Cup Cars).
And if Porsche built a 944 engine worth a crap there would be a LOT more 944's racing and the need to put in a real engine would never exist in the first place.
You can knock it. But until you drive one you have no idea what you're missing.
I've raced a LSx 951 since 2006 and it's been the most reliable, most fun race car that I've ever driven. And I've beat a TON of new GT3's and Cup Cars in the process over the years in the GT classes.
That said, I ditched my street based LSx 951 race car (still street legal BTW) and built a full-tilt pro built 951 race car with a LSx engine. Built by none other than the builder of ORCA himself (which BTW was the car he built before ORCA, and then went back to him to take to the level necessary to beat new Cup Cars).