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This is the advice current me (34) would give myself at 18 when I started an "unlimited" budget Mustang project and spent similar money converting a 4-banger auto to a V8 carb 5-speed nitrous monster with upgraded everything.
You shouldn't go in with the mentality of 'money is no object', because you will make poor decisions with it. This is double-plus so when the money is a loan, as you lose the idea of it's value.
$20k dumped into a $3k NA 944 will you leave with $20k less power in your pocket. Or worse if a loan, a $6k car and $20k debt burden.
You won't have a daily driver. You will have a long term project that has special needs. It will sit more than it moves, and if it ever does end up being complete - one or more of the following things will occur:
1. It's not enjoyable to drive daily
2. You're not comfortable leaving it anywhere
3. Life moves on and you have different automotive needs/interests.
$20k buys some pretty sweet used cars. Hell, $10k will get you something fun, and you'll still have performance, safety, comfort, reliability, and RESALE VALUE, plus, less debt and/or some money to enjoy life.
I can see what the OP wants, and it sounds reasonable. he could just get the powertrain from a 951 and transplant it into the 944, KLR, wiring and all. He'd then have a pretty nice sleeper. I don't think that would cost the Earth, either.
Wow didn't realize how bad this forum was, might go post somewhere else. I asked a question, in detail, because I don't know a whole lot about these cars, and all I get is people being super sarcastic to me. For those of you that say I should search I have and all I have found is people saying to get a turbo, and I know that's the best answer, but that was never my question. My question is, WITHOUT getting a turbo can I turbo the NA? I know it's more expensive, I know it's not logical, but that was never my question.
This is not a troll thread, I am very serious, I love the 944 and would love to do more to it a few years from now, so I wanted to ask if it was even possible before even thinking about planning to save money for that.
As for my name being Planedrop it's my name on pretty much every site, I came up with that like 10 years ago and it's never used anywhere (unless it's me) which is nice, hence the reason I use it. Never have to add numbers to it.
Anyway, back on subject, if you want me to post pictures of the car, I can do that. I am assuming you want them for "proof" that I even own one, so I can do that if you want. I'm just curious about the performance things that can be done to this engine, if money isn't really a concern, I love the 944's dearly so making one incredibly fast would be awesome.
Thanks to anyone that actually posts something useful and helps answer my question instead of calling me a liar, idiot, etc... To all of you that think it's dumb then just ignore this thread, I want real answers. Like I clearly stated in the thread, I know it's not the obvious solution, but again, my question isn't what's the obvious, cheapest, most logical solution.
It can be done with reasonable budget with stock turbo parts. Just don't let scope creep take over control.
OP: sorry you had a hard time but.... if you'd read the forum a little you'd have seen Van's thread about turbo-ing and NA and there are tons of pages out there about the engine differences, trans differences, engine management, etc. It's not hard to find, neither are all the other threads just like yours where this is rehashed monthly.
What is hard to find is a turbo swapped 944NA out driving around or for sale for more than parts value.
Honestly, if you want to drop that kind of cash, don't turbo it, supercharge it. If you want to do all that work, don't make it into something you can just go by cheaper than you can build. Build something you can't buy. Plus IMHO SC>TC.
Seemed to me that people kinda were lol, but yeah I get why people say that, and I tried to make that clear in the post that I know a 951 is a lot cheaper, more logical, and more reliable. But I think doing all the other stuff is fun honestly, engineering it, rebuilding it, etc... is fun stuff so that's the reason I ask. I don't mind spending the money to make it faster. So judging by this it seems that it's indeed possible? The reason I ask that so much is that there are some cases where turboing an NA engine will destroy it, even with a rebuild being done first. Are the 944 and 951 the same engine, just with the turbo added? Is virtually everything else identical? Or are the connecting rods, etc... bigger/stronger on the 951? Stuff like that is what I want to get info on.
The best way to do what you want is to buy a "donor" 951 and swap the 951 specific parts to your car. You will go crazy hunting all the bits piece by piece. Then sell the tub.
I started with perfectly nice NA and boght 89 turbo in this condition:
Just swapping everything would take few months and that would be it. Then the While you're in there and scope creep bugs bite and it is still in project phase.. For the last 7 years.
This is the advice current me (34) would give myself at 18 when I started an "unlimited" budget Mustang project and spent similar money converting a 4-banger auto to a V8 carb 5-speed nitrous monster with upgraded everything.
You shouldn't go in with the mentality of 'money is no object', because you will make poor decisions with it. This is double-plus so when the money is a loan, as you lose the idea of it's value.
$20k dumped into a $3k NA 944 will you leave with $20k less power in your pocket. Or worse if a loan, a $6k car and $20k debt burden.
You won't have a daily driver. You will have a long term project that has special needs. It will sit more than it moves, and if it ever does end up being complete - one or more of the following things will occur:
1. It's not enjoyable to drive daily
2. You're not comfortable leaving it anywhere
3. Life moves on and you have different automotive needs/interests.
$20k buys some pretty sweet used cars. Hell, $10k will get you something fun, and you'll still have performance, safety, comfort, reliability, and RESALE VALUE, plus, less debt and/or some money to enjoy life.
I can see what the OP wants, and it sounds reasonable. he could just get the powertrain from a 951 and transplant it into the 944, KLR, wiring and all. He'd then have a pretty nice sleeper. I don't think that would cost the Earth, either.
I was taking that path with an '84 N/A automatic. Project started April 2008, ended February 2015.
Total cost est. ~$10k
End result..... an 84 N/A auto sitting on 4 jack stands with mismatched swapped in 951 drivetrain & suspension. Turbo engine sitting on a stand, and A LOT of parts still needed.
I'm very good at custom fab and all the other nonsense involved with that idea, would have been possible. Instead I bought a 86 951.
Project done!
Moral of the story...should have bought a 951 to start with. At least I have spare parts for the 951!!
Doing the impossible against what everyone says CAN be done, but at what expense, time required, and how many marriages have to be sacrificed?
Still think an LS swapped 944 would fit the bill. Someone on LS1Tech did a 5.3L LM7 with a GT45 Turbo and is running 8s with EFI. Final total was under $7,000 - not the $10k-$20k people are running their mouths off on this board about.
So tell me again, will a 951 be faster than this car with that kind of money? If my 968 deal falls through, you can count on seeing me with an LR4 4.8L and GT45 off ebay swapped in running Microsquirt. With proper tuning that is good for some 550HP with plenty of room as I will be running 80lbs Siemens in it. And yes, I will be doing all my own work on it.
Thanks for all the help everyone, I would reply to you all individually but that would take a lot of messages lol. Anyway judging from what all of you said, I think I am instead going to keep it NA, but do a lot of other work to the engine, bore it out, port, polish, etc... I've read some other forums of people that have gotten a 2.5L NA to a 3L with 230BHP without a turbo, so maybe something along those lines. My next question is, would I still need a turbo tranny with that kind of power? I'm assuming the NA tranny can only handle 180BHP ish before it starts having issues, does that seem even somewhat right?
Also, I do like the idea behind the LS swap, maybe sometime in the future, thing is, for a while at least, this 944 will be my daily driver. Hence why getting the engine rebuilt is fine with me, I can take a few weeks off work, pay someone to rebuild it, and just use my girlfriends car or something in the meantime if I need to get places. But going all the way to the turbo sounds like it would take too much time (not so much a money factor) which would be an issue. Maybe later down the road when I get a 911 or something I can try an LS swap in this thing!
I also do like the surpercharger idea, but wouldn't that put even more strain on the engine, tranny, and chassis than a turbo? I think I said it earlier, but I'm still learning more about car mods, so I apologize if I seem like a big noob, but that would be because I am! Still that is interesting, not something you find, pretty much anywhere.
Still think an LS swapped 944 would fit the bill. Someone on LS1Tech did a 5.3L LM7 with a GT45 Turbo and is running 8s with EFI. Final total was under $7,000 - not the $10k-$20k people are running their mouths off on this board about.
8 sec in the 1/8 is about 13 in the 1/4. Why so slow? (8 sec 1/4 is like 2000 horsepower).
$7K is doable with $10k-$15k in labor value. Not many people can fab or even scrounge to get a conversion down that cheap. From what I read and the one car I have seen, even pretty expensive conversions have a sort of "kit car" experience. Cheap ones are pretty Roadkill. I love Roadkill and would love to have the time and money to build my own Rotsun turbo 4.3 Z-car or similar but it's not currently an option. Someday...
The problem with supercharging is that you're basically on your own for R&D... whereas for turbocharging, well there was a factory 944 turbo so there are parts and knowledge in large amounts. Supercharging has been done, it's just a huge undertaking from a project perspective. don't expect to pay someone to do it (correctly) either.
Source: am doing a supercharger project at the moment, snail pace.
03-09-2016, 10:11 PM
