Dan87951

Wow! Nice find! Car looks great. Can't believe that was in my backyard (Michigan).

Scott at Team Harco

Wow - indeed! What a great story.

Perfect time capsule.

Glad it's being freshened up and given the care it deserves.

CTK: For what it's worth - I have a set of Fuchs wheels that I don't have to keep. If you are still looking and are interested, maybe send a PM. These are 15x7 fronts and 15x8 rears - correct offset for the early 944.

I see you are in the area - what city?

CTK

Hey Scott. I sent you a PM regarding the Fuchs.
According to the owner's manual there was a 15" and 16" wheel option. I was under the impression that the ATS cookie cutters were the standard 15" wheel option and the Fuchs for 944 were the 16" wheel size. Is that correct?

CTK

The car under the "green carpet" is my father's 2008 Corvette convertible (Z51 pkg with a manual transmission red/black and loaded). He bought it new and it has 10,000 miles (less than 1,500 miles per yr). My father is retired and doesn't drive it much. He recently told me that he would like to get the new C7 Vette, but doesn't think its worth it to sell his car, spend double on the new car. I understand, so I told him to wait a yr. Vettes have terrible resale value and he can likely get a deal on a pre-owned if he chooses.

I ran out of space in my garage and am looking into industrial storage space to buy or rent. A good friend of mine bought an industrial storage "condo" with super tall garage doors and ceilings, approx. 2k sq ft for $70k ($35 per sq ft). That may sound like a lot of coin, but its cheaper than adding 2k sq ft to your house garage, assuming you have space and zoning permission.

When I rolled my 944 out of the garage, it had 3,614 miles. It now has 3,632 miles. So, I was able to drive her 18 miles before putting her in storage again. I will likely drive the car 500 to 1,000 miles max annually so to keep the car in as new condition as possible. Let's see, I may change my mind. There are so few low mileage original condition 944's that I want to keep this car special.

mrgreenjeans

According to the owner's manual to my early '83 ( vehicle manufactured in '82 with a December '82 owners manual print date ) I show that 7x15 ATS Cookies were the standard wheel and the 7x16 FUCHS were the only two wheels available for this 944 in '82 and early '83, other than the 6x15 in steel snow wheels. All the wheels are going to easily interchange from one to the other, but if you are into 'date code' applications or want strict adherence to Concours d'Elegance parameters, then adjust your wants and needs accordingly. ( I am of the strong belief anyway, a person can't have enough FUCHS to fit his Porsche. /-; )

Your car DID come along about 4 or 5 months later than mine in production, correct ? Was there maybe already a running change to the '82 and '83 cars with this wheel fitment ? Do you see a print date or a revision date to your owner's manual ? I do know according to the books which came with even my earliest '84 (December of '83) the wheels already had the option to go to a 7 and 8 inch stagger in a 15 inch FUCHS, but I do not know when this running change occurred. It may have been an option available all along, but just wasn't listed on the door jamb sticker OR the owner's manual.

It would be interesting to know when some of these changes occurred and what those were. As noted before, a tremendous amount of differences are seen between the very first builds and the later built '83 and early '84. I noticed and documented at least 50 or more easily seen cosmetic/mechanical items just by a quick walk around between my Dec '83 build and the July '82 build. These are both totally original cars, with no changes or upgrades to either occurring after production.

There are probably a great many more changes we are just scratching the surface of, on a car which has evolved from it's origins as the 924.

Scott at Team Harco

Steve,

Thanks for the note. The information mrgreenjeans is providing far over-reaches my detailed knowledge of what was available at what time on these cars. I did not know about the 16" Fuchs being available so early in the run.

The Fuchs I have are reputed to be from a 911. The part numbers reinforce this claim. The offset, PCD, etc. are perfectly matched to the 944. Porsche has typically kept a certain amount of "parts bin" logic in their products. For example, I have 964 wheels on my S2. I think certain 928 wheels will also work on some 944s. There is a good wheel/tire chart available at the Porsche website that is a great resource.

If you are concerned about remaining authentic to the year and model build, then these wheels may not be right. If you want to preserve the cookies and still drive the car, on some attractive forged Fuchs wheels, this is a good option.

CTK

Thanks for the details. Per my PM, call me when free. I'll check out your Fuchs.

CTK

MGJ

I will have to check the date of the owners manual. I am away from the car right now but will check. My build date was 11/82.

I agree on the Fuchs. I would like to find a nice set for my car. Prices for these are all over the place from 2k to $9,500 with tires (anodized lips)

mrgreenjeans

I agree with all of Scott's observations .....

and yes, some of my 944s have these same part's number crossovers as well. Like the 911 part numbers on some of the FUCHS and the phone dials and Flat Forged FUCHS off of 928s fitting on and appearing as production items on certain year and models of 944s. Parts bin overlap by Porsche at the factory.

In the later series two cars this can be a bit of a jumble fitting certain wheels with certain required offsets and backdating or updating a model series to another, so please refer to those wheel fitment guides seen here on this site, and on Clarks' Garage, 944 online, and other sites. They are a great help in ascertaining fitment and spacer requirements.

But, you are asking about series one wheels and fitments and all of those interchange on series one cars with no drama, from the earliest built JAN / FEB- 1982 built 944s onward thru the 85.1 series one production ( Dec. 1984 ? ).

These 16 inch FUCHS in sevens, the 7 and 8 inch by 15 FUCHS, and the ATS 15s, and the steel snow wheels in 15s. I think there was even a 14 inch snow wheel in steel I heard about, for the usage and required clearance of winter chains in severe Alpine / European climates (shudder). I once even saw a very bizarre looking center hubcap which fit over these steel snow wheels and were a purpose made item just for that wheel. I have never seen another, other than on that car which was also fitted with ski-racks on the roof and blizzaks on the ground for traction. It was going to survive that winter no matter !

FWIW, take Scott up on his available FUCHS and use them as wheels for 'go' and your ATS for original 'show'. Or, use them until you find a matching date coded set of 16 inch FUCHS in 7 inch wide, if this can indeed by verified as correct fitment to the date of manufacture. The wheel date code should identify manufacturing about a month previous and up to the date of manufacture to your vehicle for correctness. I have also an original 914 with it's original 5 FUCHS wheels and those all have date codes of June and my car has a build date of early August. So some variances do exist, but original wheels to it won't show a code later than vehicle manufacture.

HOWEVER; the build code tag.... yes that white one in back by the taillight, will have a 3 digit code noting the FUCHS wheel if it originally came on your car. Something else to think about. Some variations to these DO exist, but are usually on heavily optioned 944s with many codes, and then the wheels may be linked to an option code package such as : H48, H50, H52, or H54. For example, on a series two car I am familiar with having color matched FUCHS, it has an R74 package code denoting Sport Touring Group and the FUCHS wheel option in Grand Prix white IS included in that package and noted on the Monroney Window Sticker, but not identified separately on the white tag on the body or in the Warranty book location. It appears as part of that package, and without the Monroney or the known pkg. breakout, one could also assume it was added later.

mel_t_vin

Does anyone own a 944/1 with the factory 16" Fuchs option?

If this was, indeed, a factory configuration, the 7" et23 wheels would undoubtedly have a 911 part number, most likely 911.362.115.00.

Besides the winter wheel, I thought the only factory wheel configurations offered for the 944/1 were 15" ATS cookies, in 7" et23/7" et23, and 15" Fuchs, in 7" et23/8" et11. Though I have never confirmed, I suspect the 944 15" Fuchs also have 911 part numbers, 911.361.020.41 and 911.361.020.42.

Has anyone seen 15" Fuchs with 944 part numbers? Were the Cookies also carried over from the early Carrera, with 911 part numbers, or did they have their own 944 part number?

mrgreenjeans

My July '82 built 944 does.

And, they are original to the car. I believe they ARE 911 part numbers, but I won't be able to ascertain the 16 inch FUCHS part numbers due to the location of the car in my storage with the other sports cars surrounding it..... it's winter, minus 18 below, and nothing is getting started and moved till spring.

BUT, I do have the original ATS 7x15 wheels off of an '84 and they are sitting loose in the garage, as well as an original set of 7 and 8 x 15 FUCHS staggers also off an '84 car. And I know the 8 inch wheel is an et of 10.

I can supply those parts numbers in the next day or two when I return to the garages those are stored in.

ALL the wheels are original takeoffs to the same vehicles they were built with.

The standard cast ATS wheel for a 911 which was painted all silver was a six inch wheel on the front and a 7 inch wheel on the rear. I do not know what those part numbers for these cars would be and have no wheels sitting around off of one.

ocmacman

Wow, Gas is really cheap in Michigan. It's still 3.30 out here in Cali.

odonnell

Yessir, mine has it, and I'm running them. I'll check for a 911 p/n the next time I have at least one wheel off.

mel_t_vin

Thanks, would be interested in any additional information you can provide.

And you are correct re: et10...while the 8"x16" 951 Fuchs is et23, I believe both the 8"x15" and 8"x16" 911 Fuchs are et10.

mel_t_vin

Thanks, Michael.