Am I crazy? 944 NA as a DD
06-26-2014, 08:07 PM
#47
Edit: I also tried to find an OEM "10 year old beetle" wiper motor for comparison. They look to be already NLA new. Only refurbished units.
06-26-2014, 08:47 PM
#48
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the upside of these cars, (if not as collectables) is still huge for the pure enjoyment.
the 944 weighs about 3000 pounds. you can put these 911 wheels on it, and then it handles really good..... but, the really good part is; next, you can get a pretty nice engine (capable of pushing twice that much weight down the road) for less than $2,000, install it for about $14 k – and get tons of power.... it won't interfere or diminish the 944 or it's handling.... and not cost an arm and a leg to enjoy as a daily car.
with respect to my recent experience, my mistake was not selling the engine when I first brought my 968 home in early '08. would have got a penny for it then. what a dumbass move that was. could have had the v8 swap parts and reasonably priced, pullout engine in there, and the swap done for about what i dumped into keeping the 968 engine maintained/with maybe some left over..... then say 80~100 k miles down the road, could have pulled that motor and dropped in the nice one.
and what caused the delay?
projects around the house and the money-pit 968 motor.
you live and learn.
the 944 weighs about 3000 pounds. you can put these 911 wheels on it, and then it handles really good..... but, the really good part is; next, you can get a pretty nice engine (capable of pushing twice that much weight down the road) for less than $2,000, install it for about $14 k – and get tons of power.... it won't interfere or diminish the 944 or it's handling.... and not cost an arm and a leg to enjoy as a daily car.
with respect to my recent experience, my mistake was not selling the engine when I first brought my 968 home in early '08. would have got a penny for it then. what a dumbass move that was. could have had the v8 swap parts and reasonably priced, pullout engine in there, and the swap done for about what i dumped into keeping the 968 engine maintained/with maybe some left over..... then say 80~100 k miles down the road, could have pulled that motor and dropped in the nice one.
and what caused the delay?
projects around the house and the money-pit 968 motor.
you live and learn.
Last edited by odurandina; 06-26-2014 at 09:45 PM.
06-26-2014, 09:02 PM
#49
Come Awn man! These people are interested in PORSCHES!! Not old Chevys! Get with the program!!!
What you suggest is spending over $20k(car+motor+labor, etc) for that kinda cash out of the box you could just buy a damn nice Corvette! Or even a 996
I've got 3 big powerful V8s in my garage (320 to 550hp) and LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE driving my 4 cyl turbo Porsche as often as I can!!! There is so much more to these cars than just peak HP numbers.
06-26-2014, 10:01 PM
#50
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it's possible that our own bias' stem from our unique versions of exactly what would constitute a daily driver.
maybe you can drive your 944T often... but can you put 90 k miles on that car say, in the next three years without reaching deep into your bank account??
everyone loves to drive them. it wasn't a low-production car. this was one of the go-to performance vehicles of the '80s. it's a Porsche, and parts are available... so I want to see a few more people who can show me a 3-4 year mileage history like that with a 25 year old 944T running ice cold AC.
with all the love and wrenching that goes in, I'm just not seeing the return on investment and I'm still waiting for the 944 engine to grow wings and take these cars to the promised land.
if I remember correctly, like, maybe 5 years ago, you showed considerable enthusiasm about possibly swapping in a v8 in one of your cars.... you've also seen the kind of punishment that a properly built v8 car can take from watching Tony G's racing threads.
I talk about the v8 swaps as a long term solution, because I think spending tons of money on pee-shooter engines only to see them burn up or nickel and dime their owners vs/ the stable performance, endless power, and service, and easy upkeep you get with the v8.... of course that's going to be worth mentioning.
that being said, if it's good power at high altitude you need, maybe a turbo IS the right answer for that very reason. you can turn up the boost to compensate for the thinner air.
but, better save that one for another day.
either way, the v8 engine can get the cat f_cked for a daily driver.
but, there's that huge up front cost... so, there's no easy solution for daily driving a 25~30 year old car, as complex as a 944. as it's a VW/Audi/Porsche/Bosch German car, as mentioned above, and given the petulant nature of the 944 powerplants, it always will present an expensive car to drive long daily commuter miles or long distance travel. overall, i think pouring endless resources into a good many of them defy all tenets of good motoring sense.
maybe you can drive your 944T often... but can you put 90 k miles on that car say, in the next three years without reaching deep into your bank account??
everyone loves to drive them. it wasn't a low-production car. this was one of the go-to performance vehicles of the '80s. it's a Porsche, and parts are available... so I want to see a few more people who can show me a 3-4 year mileage history like that with a 25 year old 944T running ice cold AC.
with all the love and wrenching that goes in, I'm just not seeing the return on investment and I'm still waiting for the 944 engine to grow wings and take these cars to the promised land.
if I remember correctly, like, maybe 5 years ago, you showed considerable enthusiasm about possibly swapping in a v8 in one of your cars.... you've also seen the kind of punishment that a properly built v8 car can take from watching Tony G's racing threads.
I talk about the v8 swaps as a long term solution, because I think spending tons of money on pee-shooter engines only to see them burn up or nickel and dime their owners vs/ the stable performance, endless power, and service, and easy upkeep you get with the v8.... of course that's going to be worth mentioning.
that being said, if it's good power at high altitude you need, maybe a turbo IS the right answer for that very reason. you can turn up the boost to compensate for the thinner air.
but, better save that one for another day.
either way, the v8 engine can get the cat f_cked for a daily driver.
but, there's that huge up front cost... so, there's no easy solution for daily driving a 25~30 year old car, as complex as a 944. as it's a VW/Audi/Porsche/Bosch German car, as mentioned above, and given the petulant nature of the 944 powerplants, it always will present an expensive car to drive long daily commuter miles or long distance travel. overall, i think pouring endless resources into a good many of them defy all tenets of good motoring sense.
Last edited by odurandina; 06-26-2014 at 10:44 PM.
06-26-2014, 10:14 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
Od, you are saying nothing new here, you're no pioneer. My grandad used to put Chevy V8's in things, my dad put one in an 80's Jag XJ12 it was the craze for a while, I think we get the idea. Funny thing is 80's XJ12's in original well maintained condition still fetch $10-20k while you cannot give away a Chevy converted one.
06-26-2014, 10:47 PM
#52
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selling a 944 is a horrendous proposition either way.
for Christ sakes, guys dismantle perfectly running cars when they come to the decision that it's either time to move on or flatly, bail out. of course, it comes in varying degrees.
but, that's insane.
for Christ sakes, guys dismantle perfectly running cars when they come to the decision that it's either time to move on or flatly, bail out. of course, it comes in varying degrees.
but, that's insane.
06-26-2014, 11:03 PM
#53
Rainman
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it's possible that our own bias' stem from our unique versions of exactly what would constitute a daily driver.
maybe you can drive your 944T often... but can you put 90 k miles on that car say, in the next three years without reaching deep into your bank account??
everyone loves to drive them. it wasn't a low-production car. this was one of the go-to performance vehicles of the '80s. it's a Porsche, and parts are available... so I want to see a few more people who can show me a 3-4 year mileage history like that with a 25 year old 944T running ice cold AC.
with all the love and wrenching that goes in, I'm just not seeing the return on investment and I'm still waiting for the 944 engine to grow wings and take these cars to the promised land.
if I remember correctly, like, maybe 5 years ago, you showed considerable enthusiasm about possibly swapping in a v8 in one of your cars.... you've also seen the kind of punishment that a properly built v8 car can take from watching Tony G's racing threads.
I talk about the v8 swaps as a long term solution, because I think spending tons of money on pee-shooter engines only to see them burn up or nickel and dime their owners vs/ the stable performance, endless power, and service, and easy upkeep you get with the v8.... of course that's going to be worth mentioning.
that being said, if it's good power at high altitude you need, maybe a turbo IS the right answer for that very reason. you can turn up the boost to compensate for the thinner air.
but, better save that one for another day.
either way, the v8 engine can get the cat f_cked for a daily driver.
but, there's that huge up front cost... so, there's no easy solution for daily driving a 25~30 year old car, as complex as a 944. as it's a VW/Audi/Porsche/Bosch German car, as mentioned above, and given the petulant nature of the 944 powerplants, it always will present an expensive car to drive long daily commuter miles or long distance travel. overall, i think pouring endless resources into a good many of them defy all tenets of good motoring sense.
maybe you can drive your 944T often... but can you put 90 k miles on that car say, in the next three years without reaching deep into your bank account??
everyone loves to drive them. it wasn't a low-production car. this was one of the go-to performance vehicles of the '80s. it's a Porsche, and parts are available... so I want to see a few more people who can show me a 3-4 year mileage history like that with a 25 year old 944T running ice cold AC.
with all the love and wrenching that goes in, I'm just not seeing the return on investment and I'm still waiting for the 944 engine to grow wings and take these cars to the promised land.
if I remember correctly, like, maybe 5 years ago, you showed considerable enthusiasm about possibly swapping in a v8 in one of your cars.... you've also seen the kind of punishment that a properly built v8 car can take from watching Tony G's racing threads.
I talk about the v8 swaps as a long term solution, because I think spending tons of money on pee-shooter engines only to see them burn up or nickel and dime their owners vs/ the stable performance, endless power, and service, and easy upkeep you get with the v8.... of course that's going to be worth mentioning.
that being said, if it's good power at high altitude you need, maybe a turbo IS the right answer for that very reason. you can turn up the boost to compensate for the thinner air.
but, better save that one for another day.
either way, the v8 engine can get the cat f_cked for a daily driver.
but, there's that huge up front cost... so, there's no easy solution for daily driving a 25~30 year old car, as complex as a 944. as it's a VW/Audi/Porsche/Bosch German car, as mentioned above, and given the petulant nature of the 944 powerplants, it always will present an expensive car to drive long daily commuter miles or long distance travel. overall, i think pouring endless resources into a good many of them defy all tenets of good motoring sense.
even if i did that i'd be confident of the 944 carrying me the whole way. a belt change every 12-18 months really isn't that bad still...i can spare 2 hours every 12 months.
replace stuff that fails because its old with a new version and wait another 30 years for it to fail, rinse and repeat.
my car might get 500 miles a month currently, but it's AC is cold and the ride is nice.
06-26-2014, 11:25 PM
#54
I'll be honest here. I don't even read OD's posts anymore. The facts are against you.
The simple fact that 90‰ of these cars have 150-200k on them is proof of reliability. Period.
That is also saying a lot for reliability when they are 30 years old and most are NOT well maintained.
I personally know 3 guys with 200k plus 951s that daily drive these as their only car, and have for decades. At least one of them drives more than 100 miles a day.
Honestly, and no offense to my friends here, they do it because they don't have a lot of money to spend on a second car or newer Porsche.
The simple fact that 90‰ of these cars have 150-200k on them is proof of reliability. Period.
That is also saying a lot for reliability when they are 30 years old and most are NOT well maintained.
I personally know 3 guys with 200k plus 951s that daily drive these as their only car, and have for decades. At least one of them drives more than 100 miles a day.
Honestly, and no offense to my friends here, they do it because they don't have a lot of money to spend on a second car or newer Porsche.
06-26-2014, 11:58 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
My 944 has 150,XXX on it, many more to come. It was a DE car before I bought it, and I definitely don't baby it when I drive it. Granted, the motor has been rebuilt, but still. The damn thing is going to be around for a while, 200k will be a minimum. If something breaks, it's not that hard to find replacement parts and install them yourself.
This past month, the whole driveline sans the engine and clutch were replaced because of a diff lockup. I think I actually MADE money, because Admiralkhole and I split a parts car and have been selling stuff off of it. Car has been reliable as ever.
This past month, the whole driveline sans the engine and clutch were replaced because of a diff lockup. I think I actually MADE money, because Admiralkhole and I split a parts car and have been selling stuff off of it. Car has been reliable as ever.
06-27-2014, 12:04 AM
#56
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75k on my 951 motor, 170k+ on the body and counting.
Oh, and the original 16v motor wasnt swapped because it was bad, it was swapped because the car needed to be boosted
Oh, and the original 16v motor wasnt swapped because it was bad, it was swapped because the car needed to be boosted
06-27-2014, 01:35 AM
#57
Going on 11 years with my 944.
It's a fantastic daily driver. Very reliable once sorted. Better built and more comfortable than most new cars today. Great gas mileage. Very fun to drive and easy to live with. A stunning 80's icon.
What more could you want from a DD?
It's a fantastic daily driver. Very reliable once sorted. Better built and more comfortable than most new cars today. Great gas mileage. Very fun to drive and easy to live with. A stunning 80's icon.
What more could you want from a DD?
06-27-2014, 09:39 PM
#59
My wife ended up daily driving it on and off for the last 7 years in the summers 40 miles a day. Never an issue.
06-27-2014, 10:19 PM
#60
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Lets put two facts I think all will agree on out there and let the debate go on.
1. A properly maintained 944/951/968 will run for a long long time
2. It costs a lot relative to other cars to properly maintain a 944/951/968
and for #3 I was not talking about wrenching on these things yourself.
Yes, OD can get tiring, but so can the threads by people talking about how cheap it is to run their car while ignoring the time value of their own labor. I would rather be home watching reality TV than busting my knuckles under the car. well maybe not reality TV but you get the idea.
Lets stop acting like congress and find the things we agree on, share that with the OP, and then move on.
1. A properly maintained 944/951/968 will run for a long long time
2. It costs a lot relative to other cars to properly maintain a 944/951/968
and for #3 I was not talking about wrenching on these things yourself.
Yes, OD can get tiring, but so can the threads by people talking about how cheap it is to run their car while ignoring the time value of their own labor. I would rather be home watching reality TV than busting my knuckles under the car. well maybe not reality TV but you get the idea.
Lets stop acting like congress and find the things we agree on, share that with the OP, and then move on.